[foobar]

---

IMPs, Vulnerable vs. not (naturally), LHO deals and the bidding goes 1♥ - 4♥.

It's your call.

[eagles123]

4 spade

[BillPatch]

I will accept E's invitation to 4♠, assuming that they are bidding a natural system where the jump to 4♥ shows the preemptive hand. Might pass if they were playing an artificial system where responder would promise the equivalent of an opening bid. I expect opponents will often keep on bidding, but I respect the law of total tricks, but would like better spots where both opponents know each other is strong, and bidding might help them with their slam bidding and play.

[Zelandakh]

BillPatch, on 2015-March-06, 02:58, said:

Might pass if they were playing an artificial system where responder would promise the equivalent of an opening bid.

The LOLs in the Acol Club would be shocked to learn that this 4♥ response, bidding the game they think they can make, was part of an artificial system.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

I am assuming reasonable opponents.

Assuming 4H is preemptive: The problem is not, that they may stealing, the issue is,
that partner has a right to expect a little bit more.
And he may raise 4S to 5S or 6S.

[BillPatch]

I am aware that historically Acol in its glorious period in its heyday back in the 40's used the double jump raise in the major to show a full opening bid with four card support. Before 1960, Terence Reese switched to the preemptive usage, and my understanding is that the other Acol authorities concurred; the full opening bid in support being shown by temporizing in a new suit without a jump, then jumping to game. I play in the US, primarily, but I grew up on the American side of Niagara Falls and sometimes played in Ontario, so my personal experience with Acol players is limited. I am aware that Acol is a natural system, more natural than Goren, which is more natural than modern Standard American and 2 over one game forcing systems.

[PhilKing]

.

[BillPatch]

By the way, I have not yet decided what to do in case I run into an opponent playing old-fashioned Acol. Will decide using the time allotted to "skip bid warning." I hope I can do it in tempo.

[MrAce]

4♠

[BillPatch]

P_Marlowe, on 2015-March-06, 04:18, said:

Pass.

I am assuming reasonable opponents.

Assuming 4H is preemptive: The problem is not, that they may stealing, the issue is,
that partner has a right to expect a little bit more.
And he may raise 4S to 5S or 6S.

Yes, a reasonable Center Hand Opponent might turn unreasonable in the post mortem, after he overestimates the value of his royalty in the red suits, and sees that I have overcalled at the 4 level with this poor six loser hand. Will the rest of our team speak to me after this round is over?

[BillPatch]

Seeing that the "law" no longer is leading in the poll reminds me that the title of this thread biases the polling. The Good Book says that God ordains the law and the Devil is the chief of the lawbreakers. The tile has it backwards.

[kuhchung]

totally off topic, but i really hate the poll options
you've split 4S into two different groups and qualified them
let people vote 4S or P, and let them post the qualifiers in the thread

[jallerton]

kuhchung, on 2015-March-06, 14:42, said:

totally off topic, but i really hate the poll options
you've split 4S into two different groups and qualified them
let people vote 4S or P, and let them post the qualifiers in the thread

Not very well expressed, but I think the third option is there for people who think the decision is close.

[MrAce]

jallerton, on 2015-March-06, 15:48, said:

Not very well expressed, but I think the third option is there for people who think the decision is close.

I know, but I believe it is almost never good to attach comments next to the poll options. Better to let people make comments in their replies if they want to. Otherwise you may end up with people like me who does not vote, which works against the purpose of poll. Unless of course OP is interested in votes only for the attached reasons.

I bid 4♠ not only because they might be stealing. We may steal it from them despite the colors with this shape, Or maybe nobody is stealing anything and both sides have too many tricks. I also bid 4♠ because I prefer declaring with this hand rather than defending. DD it may be a wrong decision while it pays single dummy. All I know is, by declaring, I am more likely to play accurately than by defending.

So if I choose option 1, it would be a misdescription of my reasons. If OP adds all the reasons I have listed, someone else will not vote because it will be a misdescription of his thought process. This is why I believe it is better to not attach anything at all.

[kuhchung]

jallerton, on 2015-March-06, 15:48, said:

Not very well expressed, but I think the third option is there for people who think the decision is close.

what Timo said, but then the poll should be

clear 4S
close 4S
coin flip
close pass
clear pass

[foobar]

Editorial comments in the poll removed by popular demand. The additional options sounded good too, but IMO, it isn't fair to those who already voted.

[gszes]

Let me see I have an unlimited opening bid + to my left a p relatively short in hearts yet quiet and the vulnerability is not so good. The spade suit is ok for 4s my main problem is the clubs KQTx and I would think 4s is ok or at least not as scary. There are a huge number of hands where p has values in the reds that are totally useless in 4s and the number we go for is so huge our partners need to take a trip to the bar when they see it. We have all heard that opps 4h is a transfer to 4s if it looks reasonable (sometimes even not so reasonable) and there is indeed some pressure to act with heart shortness but the quiet from p is disturbing if we are thinking of making game. Some day p will hold the spade K and club QJ and 4s will only go down 1 for a great sac (assuming the opps do not bid 6 or 7 hearts that is). That is a pretty small target to cheer for when you are bidding 4s at these colors.

The opps have possibly preempted themselves out of slam. If we come in with our scary 4s bid we just might encourage lho to go slamming if they are either short OR modestly long in spades (since then they will expect responder to be short). Assuming modestly long does not include the AKT ackkkk. That's a whole ton of risk with very little possibility of reward 4s is not for the faint hearted among us and thank goodness I own a lot of anti acid stock after seeing the polling results so far:))))))))))))))))))))))))

[gwnn]

I like how there is 0% of the people think it is a close decision.

In unrelated news:
https://www.youtube....h?v=84A5OQSmvMQ

[GrahamJson]

I wouldn't put too much faith on the 4H bid being weak. Playing on BBO with an unfamiliar partner it may often be sensible to make the simple 4H bid rather than bidding round the houses and risking confusion. Also, in the words of T Reece, A pre-empt that is known to be weak is a blunt sword.

Anyway, I would probably bid 4S but wouldn't be surprised if I ended up writing -800 on the score card.

[Lovera]

The hand of East for this bidding doesn't have more than 8 points in high cards type ♠ x ♥ Jxxxx ♦ KQJxx ♣ xx (12 points MW+Goren+1p. 5th heart+1p. 5th diamond). I use(d) on this bidding the Oklahoma convention=4 ♣ meaning i have an ace, 4 ♦ with two aces and double jump raising like here with 0 aces and partner if not ultheriorly interested ends in 4 of trump. If S has 13 points or less 4♥ can be beated.(Lovera)