[jerdonald]

BBO forum,

N-S Vul

West holds the following hand:

S. AKQJ7
H. A
D. J6532
C. KT


East is the dealer and the bidding goes.

E S W N
p 1H ?

Should west bid 2 Hearts showing Spades and an undisclosed minor
or double with the "Big Double"?

Jerry D

[MrAce]

2♥

[Vampyr]

There are a lot of posters I'd love to ask what a que bid is.

[ahydra]

Vampyr, on 2015-March-10, 05:06, said:

There are a lot of posters I'd love to ask what a que bid is.

It's a Spanish convention used to mean "I didn't understand your previous call".

ahydra

[Vampyr]

ahydra, on 2015-March-10, 05:24, said:

It's a Spanish convention used to mean "I didn't understand your previous call".

Yes, I was thinking something along those lines...

Anyway I like space-consuming bids to be pure, so I wouldn't cue bid with this hand.

[billw55]

With the suit quality disparity and short suit honors, I also consider 1♠. But I do think it is too strong for that, so I will choose 2♥. If I double it will end up sounding like a strong one suiter, and we could lose the diamonds entirely.

[Vampyr]

billw55, on 2015-March-10, 06:00, said:

With the suit quality disparity and short suit honors, I also consider 1♠. But I do think it is too strong for that, so I will choose 2♥. If I double it will end up sounding like a strong one suiter, and we could lose the diamonds entirely.

I am comfortable with the risk of getting the dummy when I overcall 1♠.

[Phil]

Doubling on a 5-5 (12) is generally a no-no, but if I did, it would look a lot like this - strong five card major, weak five card minor and a doubleton honor.

All there's left to do is argue about strength.

[rmnka447]

I'm a 1 ♠ bidder also.

Although you've got extras, the ♦ suit is just too poor to Michaels IMO.

[trevahound]

1♠ for me, and not at all ashamed.

[m1cha]

jerdonald, on 2015-March-09, 19:12, said:

Should west bid 2 Hearts showing Spades and an undisclosed minor or double with the "Big Double"?

It depends on what you agreed with your partner. If you are the guys who play 2♥ as either weak or very strong, that's a perfect bid. Otherwise I'd rate the hand too strong for Michaels.

I would double, and if partner bids ♣, change to ♠. This does not describe my hand well but will probably lead us to the right contract. Bidding ♠ and planning a ♦ rebid is the way to describe the shape but I doubt I will be able to describe the strength in that way.

[PhantomSac]

So a bunch of people are opting to overcall 1S with an 18 count that includes 5 solid and 5-5 and prime values as opposed to bidding 2H which shows 5-5? Consider my mind blown.

[Zelandakh]

billw55, on 2015-March-10, 06:00, said:

With the suit quality disparity and short suit honors, I also consider 1♠. But I do think it is too strong for that, so I will choose 2♥. If I double it will end up sounding like a strong one suiter, and we could lose the diamonds entirely.

What would you do with 5242 shape and 7.5 PTs? Something like ♠AKQJ7 ♥32 ♦AQT5 ♣K6. Are you still worried about losing the diamonds (after X) or being too strong (for 1♠)?

Given the weak diamonds, it seems to me reasonable to treat both of these hands the same way whatever that happens to be. That would bring X and bid back into the picture for many pairs. Despite the modern trend, this is too strong for 1♠ by me as well, so the discussion seems to me to revolve around whether to treat this diamond suit as a real 5 bagger or downgrade it to a good 4. Despite Justin's post arguing the former course, I am personally stil leaning towards the latter, so am hoping for some further input on this from other posters.

[billw55]

Zel, I guess the question is what can be gained or lost. Michaels can gain if 3NT is down with 5♦ making - say if partner can provide ♦HHx or Hxxx but nothing in hearts. 3NT can easily go down: I can't hold up, opener obviously has entries anyway, and I don't expect nine cashers very often.

Against that, showing 55 leaks information on the way to 3NT or 4♠. How often that will matter, I can't be sure, but it certainly seems nontrivial.

[Zelandakh]

I think it is a little more complicated than that bill. Think about the likely auction. After 2♥ there is a strong chance partner will continue 3♣ (p/c). Over that we presumably bid 3♠ to show a strong hand with diamonds. This does not leave a great deal of space left over to explore 3NT. After a double, partner's most likely call is 2 of a minor. Now 2♠ is a less complete picture but provides more space. If we subsequently get to bid 3♦ we are surely better off, not to mentione when partner has a bust and we get to stop low. Against that, partner might advance the double with something like 3♣ and now we are probably worse off. As I wrote before, my instinct is that the good auctions for X against 2♥ outweigh the bad ones but I sense the opportunity to learn something here and hope the "senior" posters will chip on on this some more.

[mikeh]

PhantomSac, on 2015-March-10, 20:10, said:

So a bunch of people are opting to overcall 1S with an 18 count that includes 5 solid and 5-5 and prime values as opposed to bidding 2H which shows 5-5? Consider my mind blown.

I think the real question is what one plans to do after the Michael's Cue bid. I assume that if we choose 2♥, which gets my vote (narrowly), we are planning on raising 2♠ to 3♠. What are we planning to do over 2N? Again, I assume we intend to do something to show strength.

What I am not clear on is what that would be. We seem to have several possibilities, and I suspect that you have more nuanced agreements than I do Would we be thinking of a strength-showing but otherwise ambiguous 3♥? Would we be bidding 4♦, and giving up on 3N?

It is the ambiguity of later action that most suggests not using the cuebid. I wouldn't, however, bid 1♠ as my second choice....this is too strong a playing hand to do that, even tho I am a kokish-style overcaller, unafraid of a heavy point count.

To me, the cuebid shows the shape and I can usually show the strength next round, so I get to show my hand reasonably well in two bids. Even if they pre-empt, I can double.

If I overcall, I get to show spades, but it may well end the auction and/or lead to an auction in which I can't show both diamonds and strength...imagine 3♥ on my left passed back to me.

If I double, again I may be unable to show all 3 of my features...indeed, and may well lose the diamond suit entirely plus suggest more spades than I hold.

So I cuebid and hope that things work out.

[Cyberyeti]

I overcall 1♠, but my overcalls are much sounder than most peoples', we won't miss game if it's on barring partner holding something wholly exceptional like ♣QJxxxxx and a stiff diamond.