[Zelandakh]

helene_t, on 2015-June-26, 14:47, said:

I am not convinced by Mendelson's argument.

Partner usually isn't strong enough to use fourth suit when you have such a monster. Suppose he bids 2♣. Now you have to do something forcing again on your third turn. 2♦ is probably what you would bid with a 4045 16-18 count. Partner can pass it.

Bid 2NT with the 4045 (with a subsequent 3♦ reply natural) and use 2♦ as a catch-all force. That does not mean I am advocating 1♠ as forcing, just that this seems like a very easy solution to this particular issue.

[aguahombre]

GrahamJson, on 2015-June-27, 01:36, said:

You should not miss describe your shape just in order to make a reverse.

Vampyr, on 2015-June-27, 09:55, said:

There was a hand on these forums recently where members were virtually unanimously in favour of doing just that.

And they would be virtually unanimously wrong. There are canape' styles, but that isn't what we are discussing in this n/b thread. There are responding hand styles where over 1H, holding 4-2-3-4 and g.f. values people choose 2C (although we don't subscribe to that.

But for opener to distort pattern to artificially create a reverse is not something we should be advocating to anyone, let alone n/b.

A typical error by inexperienced players would be to open 1♣ with Ax x KQJxxx AQxxx so that they can reverse in diamonds later.

[Jinksy]

I think the hand in question (assuming it's the same one I remember) was something along the lines of KQx AKx A QJ9xxx (I'm making up the honours, but roughly that strength and shape), where the bidding began 1♣ 1♠ / ?

Rebidding 2♣ has a good chance of getting you passed out, playing in the wrong strain at the wrong level. Even rebidding 3♣ feels too weak, and also wrong on such a suit. Hence 2♥, planning to continue correcting to partner's suit if he keeps trying to raise your suit (since we know if he has 4 hearts, he must have 5 spades)

[GrahamJson]

Reversing into a three card suit I'd quite common practice, and not quite what I was referring to earlier. In fact we often have to bid short suits at times because no other bid is attractive. What I was thinking of were hands like that described by aguahombre, or even worse, opening 1C on Axx x KQJxx AQxx so that you can later reverse into 2D.

[aguahombre]

GrahamJson, on 2015-June-28, 05:38, said:

Reversing into a three card suit I'd quite common practice, and not quite what I was referring to earlier. In fact we often have to bid short suits at times because no other bid is attractive. What I was thinking of were hands like that described by aguahombre, or even worse, opening 1C on Axx x KQJxx AQxx so that you can later reverse into 2D.

Yeh, the hand you show there...and mine are not strong enough to open 1d, then jumpshift to clubs; but a simple 2C bid is fine in it's wide range. Responder will/should often make a false preference 2D rebid with something like 5-3-2-3 and a minimum response -- and then you can choose if you want to then bid 2S. That would suggest extra strength, and your exact shape.

I noticed in your opening post some confusion of terms between jump shift and reverse, but that's another story.

[benlessard]

Quote

You would pass a 1♣ bid with this? Seriously?

No but i would pass 2S.