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Who does the 5 level belong to?

#1 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2015-August-15, 22:31



Not the greatest 18 count, but an 18 count it is. Pass, double or 5H? If you pass, you expect it to end the auction. Assume IMPs if it matters.
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#2 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-August-15, 22:39

View Postmr1303, on 2015-August-15, 22:31, said:



Not the greatest 18 count, but an 18 count it is. Pass, double or 5H? If you pass, you expect it to end the auction. Assume IMPs if it matters.


5 level definitely not belong to me when I have 5422 and my hand is strong candidate to defeat them.


DBL.(does not mean I have spades, means I have too much values to simply pass)

They may even make it, but this action is the winner in long run imo. Too bad if they found a 10 card fit, but I think everyone with 4 card spades would bid 4 with E hand and this vulnerability.
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#3 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-August-15, 22:39

dbl post
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





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#4 User is offline   wanoff 

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Posted 2015-August-16, 04:59

The 5 level belongs to Nigel.
And not me with this hand - dbl
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#5 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2015-August-16, 07:27

The 5 level belongs to me!

However, this is a double.
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#6 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2015-August-16, 09:57

What's 2? Spades and a minor? Which minor? You have two and a half quick tricks, but on the bidding you probably won't get them all. How many tricks can you expect partner to get?

Partner still has a call.
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#7 User is online   apollo1201 

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Posted 2015-August-16, 10:59

To me!

Ususally, but not today so I'll x with this point-heavy but flattish hand, partner has the right to pull though).
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#8 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2015-August-16, 11:09

View Postblackshoe, on 2015-August-16, 09:57, said:

What's 2? Spades and a minor? Which minor? You have two and a half quick tricks, but on the bidding you probably won't get them all. How many tricks can you expect partner to get?

Partner still has a call.


Have to agree. partners 4 could have zero defence I think this is up to partner and is not a forcing pass situation.
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#9 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2015-August-16, 12:29

Double with this hand! You have prospects for 3 tricks outside of .

To bid 5 in this situation, you need to be able to have a fair chance of having no more than 2 losers. But Jx looks like 2 potential losers because you can't assume partner is necessarily short. If partner has a stiff or a void, then partner can pull to 5 if unwilling to defend 4 doubled.
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#10 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-August-16, 12:58

View Postblackshoe, on 2015-August-16, 09:57, said:

What's 2? Spades and a minor? Which minor? You have two and a half quick tricks, but on the bidding you probably won't get them all.

If LHO is 5/5, I expect to take A, K, and another king.

Meanwhile, partner's 4 is not a preempt, he is allowed to have some values.

Quote

Partner still has a call.

Exactly, and double is the best way to help him make the right decision. Passing with three likely tricks and an 18-count would be unilateral.
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#11 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2015-August-16, 15:21

Partner has bid 4 vul vs not, I would bet on 5 at MPs if I had a bit more control (Ax instead). Opponents can still make a bigger mistake even if its wrong.

But the hand is too crappy to expect 5 making. I expect partner to cuebid 2 with 2 aces and playing strenght for 4, so 5 is betting on partner to have singleton spade to have any chance.
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#12 User is offline   beautyleg 

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Posted 2015-August-17, 01:07

The opener had 18hcp (within which some players would have opened 1NT). The Michael user must have some hcp, 10 for example, so that he could buy a safer contract (spades would be on 2-level and minors would be on 3-level). Assuming east had 7hcp, he dare bid spades when the bidding level had jumped to 4. So how could north have?His hand was most probably weak(5-hcp) but distributed in some degree (at least you had gotten 5+support in trumps by preemptive 4H).



You were likely to have 2tricks on minors, one in KQ and one in AK (be careful of the meaning of Michael). But you had 1trick at most on hearts because they had a singleton at least and you needed HA on your p (if that your p had no honor cards in spades). 4S would much probably be made. So how about 5H?Your hand was strong enough to hold 3suits except spades. You would be apt to lose 1 on diamonds, 2 on spades and 1(ace) on hearts. However, we still have no idea of the distribution of clubs but it would led to the result at a key point, maybe 4S= or 4S-1 and 5Hx-2 or 5Hx-3.

Hope you were lucky to have a satisfied result.
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#13 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2015-August-17, 04:31

What fluffy says. Also, your high cards in the minors strongly indicate that this might be quite an impure hand, in which case you expect to make fewer total tricks than the 20 suggested by the auction, so I think dble is a big long term winner here. If partners hand is something like x Axxxx xx Qxxxx he should obviously be pulling this. Its a values double to tell him that its our hand, not a penalty double.
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#14 User is offline   Trump Echo 

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Posted 2015-August-17, 05:06

I could have had a bare bones hand and yet my p is calling game in Hearts vulnerable. I am raising.
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#15 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2015-August-17, 05:55

@ Phil and Fluffy, on what hands should partner pull a double? Presumably partner's 4H at this vul should have 5 trumps and a stiff?
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#16 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2015-August-17, 06:45

View Postmr1303, on 2015-August-17, 05:55, said:

@ Phil and Fluffy, on what hands should partner pull a double? Presumably partner's 4H at this vul should have 5 trumps and a stiff?


I don't think a stiff spade or a fifth heart is guaranteed. I can imagine lots of hands like x Axxx Axxxx xxx where I might bid 4H here vul vs not. I also might do it on a hand like xx KQxxx Kxxx xx. You shouldn't be aiming to always make 4H, since that takes away the opponents decision of whether to sacrifice. You want them to be worrying that they might be taking a phantom and generally to be unsure. Even if I accepted your definition, the stiff might not be in spades!

You might also bid 4H on - Axxxx xxxx xxx or something, pretty much any hand with a spade void is a super easy pull imo. Two suited hand should almost always pull if they have 1 or 3 spades. x Axxxx Kxxxx xx is an easy pull. The danger of a double fit is just too high.
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#17 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2015-August-17, 14:14

View Postmr1303, on 2015-August-17, 05:55, said:

@ Phil and Fluffy, on what hands should partner pull a double? Presumably partner's 4H at this vul should have 5 trumps and a stiff?

5 trump and a stiff will only be about half the hands, some others will be balanced with 8-9 HCP and 5 trumps, good hands with 4 trumps and a shortness, hands with 6 diamonds and 3-4 trumps (not for me, I use forrester), and there are others with just a good 5 card minor, but they are not possible with our holding there unless AJ10xx.

I don't think partner is going to pull our double very often, if he does I am sure 5 will be a virtual claim, and even 6 would be possible. Because he will pull only with extra ODR and a hand that bid 4 to make. So for the most part a spade void, or a 6-4, don't think most of the normal hands with singleton spade are going to pull.



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#18 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2015-August-17, 22:04

I did double and partner held:

x
Axxxx
Axxx
xxx

and 5H was the par result. 4SX was one off. Should partner pull here?
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#19 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2015-August-18, 03:04

View Postmr1303, on 2015-August-17, 22:04, said:

I did double and partner held:

x
Axxxx
Axxx
xxx

and 5H was the par result. 4SX was one off. Should partner pull here?


Why did he not bid 3 on the previous round?
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#20 User is offline   btour 

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Posted 2015-August-18, 20:41

View PostPhilKing, on 2015-August-18, 03:04, said:

Why did he not bid 3 on the previous round?



My 2 cents...I like to use 2nt not natural to show this hand which is offensive limit raise. 4!H is weaker, and the cue would be hcp invite. Which it is close to being. Except that hand would have more scattered k q j's etc. There are only 8 losers despite the lack of hcps...Let opener decide.
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