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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#20561 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-October-12, 07:19

View Postkenberg, on 2022-October-11, 08:07, said:

Obviously I don't think of myself as an echo chamber, and probably also obviously I can't see myself arguing about whether I am an echo chamber. Not much more to say about it.

First, let me apologize as what I wrote sounded like a personal attack. I should have said WE ALL at times are echo chambers. That is what makes the failure of media in its responsibility to separate fact from malarkey so critical in today’s environment. Thus the responsibility to dig deep falls on the individual, who doesn’t always have time or inclination to dig, and that makes us all subject to misinformation, disinformation, and propaganda.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20562 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2022-October-12, 14:48

View PostWinstonm, on 2022-October-12, 07:19, said:

First, let me apologize as what I wrote sounded like a personal attack. I should have said WE ALL at times are echo chambers. That is what makes the failure of media in its responsibility to separate fact from malarkey so critical in today's environment. Thus the responsibility to dig deep falls on the individual, who doesn't always have time or inclination to dig, and that makes us all subject to misinformation, disinformation, and propaganda.


I put the dueling pistols back in the safe.

Added: Given the current context, I will assure everyone that the reference to a duel was intended as humor.

I did a lot of outdoor work today that would have been easier twenty years ago but it isn't twenty years ago so I am tired. And more to do tomorrow. So it might be a few days before I say much.
Ken
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#20563 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2022-October-12, 16:16

View PostWinstonm, on 2022-October-12, 07:19, said:

First, let me apologize as what I wrote sounded like a personal attack. I should have said WE ALL at times are echo chambers. That is what makes the failure of media in its responsibility to separate fact from malarkey so critical in today’s environment. Thus the responsibility to dig deep falls on the individual, who doesn’t always have time or inclination to dig, and that makes us all subject to misinformation, disinformation, and propaganda.

Nice use of malarkey! Joe B would be proud :)
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#20564 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-October-16, 08:14

My concerns at this point center on how many supporters of authoritarianism,I.e., Trump sympathizers, are still imbedded within the government, inside the FBI, Secret Service, and DOJ., and how much damage can they still do.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20565 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-October-19, 06:50

Things are looking gloomy on the democracy front:


Posted Image
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#20566 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2022-October-19, 14:19

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-October-19, 06:50, said:



Not surprisingly, the percentage of QOP who think the US democracy isn't doing well matches the percentage of QOP who think that Trump won the 2020 election and should be the lawful president.
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#20567 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-October-24, 14:02

A genuine issue for those people born with authoritarian tendencies is that hierarchy is a necessary component of solution and that makes it more difficult to recognize a con job done skillfully by a demagogue such as Trump.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20568 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2022-October-28, 10:11

Anyone who is still incredulous that Trump got elected in the first place should read Andy Borowitz's Profiles in Ignorance: How America's Politicians Got Dumb and Dumber. It explains how we got here, mainly starting with Ronald Reagan, going through Dan Quayle, and Sarah Palin, and George W. Bush, and finally leading to Trump and other recent idiots like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz.

What most people may not realize is that many of the same people are behind the scenes, advising the GOP on strategy and training the candidates on speech-making and debating. Roger Ayles, Roy Cohn, and others keep making appearances.

#20569 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-October-31, 00:21

"Wall builder" convicted:

Associated Press said:

NEW YORK (AP) — A Colorado businessman was convicted Friday of charges that he and others siphoned hundreds of thousands of dollars from an online fundraiser to build a wall along the U.S. southern border despite a promise to donors that every cent would go toward building the wall.

Timothy Shea stared straight ahead without reaction as he was convicted in Manhattan federal court of two conspiracy counts and an obstruction of justice charge by a jury that deliberated about six hours after a one-week retrial. He said nothing when he was asked to comment as he left the building. Sentencing was set for Jan. 31.

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#20570 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-October-31, 06:50

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-October-31, 00:21, said:


Same crime and conviction for Steve Bannon but he was pardoned by Trump.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20571 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2022-October-31, 11:56

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-October-31, 00:21, said:



It would be nice, but probably naive, to hope people would give some thought to this. Eleven out of twelve thought he was guilty in the first trial, and twelve out of twelve thought so in the second trial . A reasonable conclusion is that he in fact did what the prosecutors said that he did.


Yes, there was a 1957 movie, 12 Angry men, in which 11 out of 12 jurors initially voted guilty but one juror, Henry Fonda, insisted that more discussion was needed. Well, who would disagree with Henry Fonda? And eventually all twelve voted not guilty. But that was a movie.


I have read that some are now questioning the story about what happened to Paul Pelosi. Well, the guy is in the hospital and he didn't beat himself up. Sure, there has to be a trial, there can be a defense, but could we go a little easy on thinking that this is some sort of false flag operation? Good grief.

As everyone knows, I am sometimes a skeptic of some liberal ideas. Any two people can disagree. But vaccines do not make you radioactive. Some discussions are just crazy.
Ken
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#20572 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-November-01, 07:44

View Postkenberg, on 2022-October-31, 11:56, said:

It would be nice, but probably naive, to hope people would give some thought to this. Eleven out of twelve thought he was guilty in the first trial, and twelve out of twelve thought so in the second trial . A reasonable conclusion is that he in fact did what the prosecutors said that he did.


Yes, there was a 1957 movie, 12 Angry men, in which 11 out of 12 jurors initially voted guilty but one juror, Henry Fonda, insisted that more discussion was needed. Well, who would disagree with Henry Fonda? And eventually all twelve voted not guilty. But that was a movie.


I have read that some are now questioning the story about what happened to Paul Pelosi. Well, the guy is in the hospital and he didn't beat himself up. Sure, there has to be a trial, there can be a defense, but could we go a little easy on thinking that this is some sort of false flag operation? Good grief.

As everyone knows, I am sometimes a skeptic of some liberal ideas. Any two people can disagree. But vaccines do not make you radioactive. Some discussions are just crazy.


I just read about 3 militia members who invaded the capitol, and they were former special forces, all 3 in their sixties. How can people who swore an oath believe that Donald Trump and his cronies are the lesser evil? What have they been watching, reading, and hearing to convince them that the rest of us must be stopped at any cost?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20573 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-November-01, 14:09

View PostWinstonm, on 2022-November-01, 07:44, said:

How can people who swore an oath believe ...


Primum non nocere - if only it were true.

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#20574 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2022-November-01, 20:06

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-October-31, 00:21, said:



These are the times I need to keep my anti-social traits to myself
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#20575 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-November-02, 16:21

View Postthepossum, on 2022-November-01, 20:06, said:

These are the times I need to keep my anti-social traits to myself

Do you disagree with this law or with the the idea if a jury?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#20576 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2022-November-03, 16:04

View PostWinstonm, on 2022-November-02, 16:21, said:

Do you disagree with this law or with the the idea if a jury?


I was making something of dark joke in relation to certain privately held views about certain scams :)

But I could never condone law-breaking.

There was a wonderful show about a con regarding selling the Hollywood sign once. I forget what it was called
Some of us us see the funny side. I am saying no more
What better scam than building some obnoxious barrier, hypothetically and fictionally of course.
And there is a very real and philosophical difference between scamming the rich and the ordinary workers
They possibly both fit into the same category of more money than sense but I am not going there

It appears that those kind of anti-social tendencies have become more dominant in our world
Many apparently are legal and will never see a courtroom
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#20577 User is offline   pilowsky 

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Posted 2022-November-08, 05:39

Good luck America.
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#20578 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2022-November-08, 05:47

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-November-08, 05:39, said:

Good luck America.


I have no idea what's going to happen today.

There's a whole bunch of conflicting claims about polls, turn out, what have you.

I am very concerned about what might happen tomorrow. (By which I mean that this could be a whole lot worse than 1/6)
Alderaan delenda est
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#20579 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2022-November-08, 07:49

View Postpilowsky, on 2022-November-08, 05:39, said:

Good luck America.


Luck if you've ever been a lady to begin with.....

At some point in life, I decided I should depend less on luck and try harder to use good judgment.

Anyway, I accept the wish for good luck even if it implicitly includes some skepticism about where we are headed. I share the skepticism.

I'll be voting in about an hour. Not for the first time my congressional district has changed, the previous gerrymandering being replaced by new gerrymandering.
Ken
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#20580 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2022-November-08, 11:25

It seems good luck world might be needed.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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