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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#9941 User is offline   ldrews 

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Posted 2018-April-21, 12:33

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-April-21, 11:20, said:

Donald Trump is quoted by numerous news sources today as tweeting that Michael Cohen will not "flip" on him. This is a startling admission, as to "flip" one must be: A) in legal jeopardy oneself and B) able to provide incriminating evidence on a higher up. For someone who has done nothing illegal, there can be no threat of someone "flipping". The fact that Trump says Cohen won't flip must mean that there is the possibility that he could, which means that Cohen has knowledge of evidence incriminating Trump. By claiming Cohen will not flip, Don Presidente' has acknowledged that he has committed a crime that he needs to keep hidden.

Way to go, Fredo. You really are smart!


Well, after 15 months he is still President! And Hillary is not. And Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Mark Rubio, Bernie Sanders, etc.
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#9942 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2018-April-21, 16:09

View Postjohnu, on 2018-April-21, 11:54, said:

I agree. This theory is almost as grandiose as when they sued Nixon's CREEP (reelection committee) for conspiring to plan the Watergate break-in, just days after the arrests and we all know how that turned out.

CIA "op" (too inept to be actual subterfuge) because Milhous was straying too far from the script.... (Hunt, Bernard Barker et al)
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
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#9943 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-April-21, 19:47

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-April-21, 11:20, said:

By claiming Cohen will not flip, Don Presidente' has acknowledged that he has committed a crime that he needs to keep hidden.

Way to go, Fredo. You really are smart!

Trump is hardly so careful with his choice of words that you can really take such inferences.

#9944 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-April-21, 21:21

View Postbarmar, on 2018-April-21, 19:47, said:

Trump is hardly so careful with his choice of words that you can really take such inferences.


Actually, you can. Imagine if you had nothing to hide. Are you going to say, he won't flip? No, because the idea of flipping is a non-starter. More likely to say, let him, I've got nothing to hide.

No, methinks this guy doth protest too much. Something in Denmark is rotten.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9945 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2018-April-21, 23:34

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-April-21, 11:20, said:

Donald Trump is quoted by numerous news sources today as tweeting that Michael Cohen will not "flip" on him. This is a startling admission, as to "flip" one must be: A) in legal jeopardy oneself and B) able to provide incriminating evidence on a higher up. For someone who has done nothing illegal, there can be no threat of someone "flipping". The fact that Trump says Cohen won't flip must mean that there is the possibility that he could, which means that Cohen has knowledge of evidence incriminating Trump. By claiming Cohen will not flip, Don Presidente' has acknowledged that he has committed a crime that he needs to keep hidden.

Way to go, Fredo. You really are smart!

Maybe Trump said it in light of the special counsel that Mueller recently hired for this case.

http://www.dailymail...ump-probes.html

Quote

Now special counsel probing Trump and Russia hires prosecutor who specializes in getting witnesses to turn on their friends and bosses
Robert Mueller, the former FBI chief who is now special counsel, is adding a top Justice Department lawyer who specializes in getting witnesses to 'flip' Andrew Weissmann headed Justice Department's criminal fraud section and previously investigated Enron and jailed Mafia bigs in Brooklyn
He got Vinny 'the chin' Gigante's inner circle to turn on him and led to Mafira kingpin being jailed in 1997
Now he will target Trump's friends, employees and aides, including those like his own son-in-law Jared Kushner who have retained their own lawyers

Also, getting a witness to flip is not necessarily a sign of guilt, but could very well be a function of prosecutorial misconduct which is rampant in the Department of Justice to get the verdicts they do.
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#9946 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-April-22, 07:30

View PostRedSpawn, on 2018-April-21, 23:34, said:

Maybe Trump said it in light of the special counsel that Mueller recently hired for this case.

http://www.dailymail...ump-probes.html


Also, getting a witness to flip is not necessarily a sign of guilt, but could very well be a function of prosecutorial misconduct which is rampant in the Department of Justice to get the verdicts they do.


I would say your quote is excellent - getting a mobster to flip is a good analogy to use for this president.

On second thought, this might be a better quote. From WaPo:

Quote

Prosecutors and federal agents are extremely adept at exploiting human foibles. Mueller knows from long experience that powerful people think they can talk their way out of trouble and resent lawyers telling them they can’t. He also knows that powerful people tend to favor action. Often, my first advice to a client is simply “Stop doing things” — stop trying to use your influence and connections and persuasiveness and industry experience to solve the problem of being the subject of a criminal investigation. Patience and watchfulness are usually the best strategy. But people who clawed their way to the top by dynamism are no good at sitting still.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9947 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-April-22, 13:03

Back to the "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" department.

In incident #1, James Comey wrote notes that after being told of the claim of frolicking with prostitutes in Moscow, Trump denied he had even stayed the night in Moscow, although his own bodyguard, Keith Shiller, and many others have already testified that he did. In fact, Shiller testified that he advised Trump that prostitutes had been offered by the Russians.

Claiming he had not even spent the night in Moscow appears to be claiming too much innocence to be believable.

In incident #2, Michael Cohen, in an earlier interview, told David Corn of Mother Jones that he had not been to Prague in over 14 years. However, after the Steele memos were published, claiming Cohen met Russians in Prague prior to the election, Cohen is now claiming that he has never been to Prague.

Again, is this protesting too much?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9948 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2018-April-23, 03:37

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-April-22, 13:03, said:

Back to the "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" department.

In incident #1, James Comey wrote notes that after being told of the claim of frolicking with prostitutes in Moscow, Trump denied he had even stayed the night in Moscow, although his own bodyguard, Keith Shiller, and many others have already testified that he did. In fact, Shiller testified that he advised Trump that prostitutes had been offered by the Russians.

Claiming he had not even spent the night in Moscow appears to be claiming too much innocence to be believable.

In incident #2, Michael Cohen, in an earlier interview, told David Corn of Mother Jones that he had not been to Prague in over 14 years. However, after the Steele memos were published, claiming Cohen met Russians in Prague prior to the election, Cohen is now claiming that he has never been to Prague.

Again, is this protesting too much?

President Trump wanted to verify Putin's claim!

Trust but verify.

https://www.vox.com/...utes-yes-really
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#9949 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-April-23, 09:20

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-April-21, 21:21, said:

Actually, you can. Imagine if you had nothing to hide. Are you going to say, he won't flip? No, because the idea of flipping is a non-starter. More likely to say, let him, I've got nothing to hide.

The question "Will Comey flip?" was all over the media. It's pretty natural for Trump to parrot it back. He's just not smart enough to think about the implications of his choice of words.

Remember, this is a guy who doesn't think about the implications on foreign relations from calling Kim Jong-Un "Little Rocket Man".

#9950 User is offline   ldrews 

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Posted 2018-April-23, 10:08

View Postbarmar, on 2018-April-23, 09:20, said:

The question "Will Comey flip?" was all over the media. It's pretty natural for Trump to parrot it back. He's just not smart enough to think about the implications of his choice of words.

Remember, this is a guy who doesn't think about the implications on foreign relations from calling Kim Jong-Un "Little Rocket Man".


You mean like the real possibility of North Korean denuclearization or reunification?
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#9951 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-April-23, 10:13

View Postldrews, on 2018-April-23, 10:08, said:

You mean like the real possibility of North Korean denuclearization or reunification?


I am happy to admit that things are going much better than I would have expected.

With this said and done, don't count your chickens before they hatch...
Alderaan delenda est
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#9952 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2018-April-23, 10:56

View Posthrothgar, on 2018-April-23, 10:13, said:

I am happy to admit that things are going much better than I would have expected.

With this said and done, don't count your chickens before they hatch...


Keep in mind that after this event happened late last year it's quite possible that North Korea doesn't have the facilities for further nuclear tests. So they may not be giving up anything at all, and of course they can always "change their minds" after they rebuild if they don't get concessions they want.
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#9953 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-April-24, 05:43

The ugly truth about why this president was elected comes out in a study in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences:

Quote

One particularly telling factor did increase the likelihood of support for Trump: believing that white people are more discriminated against than people of color, and believing that Christians and men experience more discrimination than Muslims and women.


https://mashable.com...ed#WQ5z_8b9yOqU

It appears that Ta-Nehishi Coates was right, all along. It's all about white privilege.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
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#9954 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2018-April-24, 05:47

View Posthrothgar, on 2018-April-23, 10:13, said:

I am happy to admit that things are going much better than I would have expected.

With this said and done, don't count your chickens before they hatch...


I'm far more worried that our metaphorical chickens will be coming home to roost.

As to North Korea all we have seen so far is a lot of bragging, tough talk and, of course, tweets. We will have talks between two heads of state, both of whom seem to be more concerned with their own image than with anything else. Ok, it's a tough world out there and we don't send a Boy Scout to a knife fight and etc and etc. But these are two guys that I do not expect much good from. Miracles can happen. Don't bet on them happening.
Ken
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#9955 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2018-April-24, 07:21

View Postkenberg, on 2018-April-24, 05:47, said:

I'm far more worried that our metaphorical chickens will be coming home to roost.

As to North Korea all we have seen so far is a lot of bragging, tough talk and, of course, tweets. We will have talks between two heads of state, both of whom seem to be more concerned with their own image than with anything else. Ok, it's a tough world out there and we don't send a Boy Scout to a knife fight and etc and etc. But these are two guys that I do not expect much good from. Miracles can happen. Don't bet on them happening.

The American empire is following in the footsteps of every other empire. Things happen more quickly in this modern world of ours so the barbarians are at the gates and further imperial tendencies will only result in more of them.
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
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#9956 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-April-24, 08:53

View Postldrews, on 2018-April-23, 10:08, said:

You mean like the real possibility of North Korean denuclearization or reunification?

If you think that's a result of Trump's tweets you're crazy.

#9957 User is offline   ldrews 

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Posted 2018-April-24, 09:00

View Postbarmar, on 2018-April-24, 08:53, said:

If you think that's a result of Trump's tweets you're crazy.


To what would you attribute the sudden change in attitude of the North Koreans?
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#9958 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-April-24, 09:00

One of Trump's biggest lies has been revealed. When he was listed on the first Forbes 400 list of the richest Americans, he was only worth 5% of what he claimed.

https://www.washingt...m=.bdedf6bb6595

Quote

But it took decades to unwind the elaborate farce Trump had enacted to project an image as one of the richest people in America. Nearly every assertion supporting that claim was untrue. Trump wasn’t just poorer than he said he was. Over time, I have learned that he should not have been on the first three Forbes 400 lists at all. In our first-ever list, in 1982, we included him at $100 million, but Trump was actually worth roughly $5 million — a paltry sum by the standards of his super-monied peers — as a spate of government reports and books showed only much later.


#9959 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2018-April-24, 09:09

View Postbarmar, on 2018-April-24, 09:00, said:

One of Trump's biggest lies has been revealed. When he was listed on the first Forbes 400 list of the richest Americans, he was only worth 5% of what he claimed.

https://www.washingt...m=.bdedf6bb6595




It just feels like another viewing of Groundhog Day.
Ken
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#9960 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2018-April-24, 09:13

Stay tuned.
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