BBO Discussion Forums: responding with strong 2 suiited (5-5) hand - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

responding with strong 2 suiited (5-5) hand precision

#1 User is offline   Shugart23 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 447
  • Joined: 2013-July-07

Posted 2015-August-29, 05:52

Playing match point, partner opens 1C and you have strong (8 plus HCP_ 2 suited hand..5-5 or better......wondering if anyone has techniques for responder to show this information...Currently, my method is to show one of the suits and this immediately initiates series of asking sequences....Second suit may never be uncovered......For us , 1C-3H is an undefined bid and could possibly use that for a CRASH-like bid but haven't really thought it out.....We don't use Impossible Negative, so maybe a solution could be found going this route....Wondering if anyone else has developed something. Thank you for any comments.
0

#2 User is offline   steve2005 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,011
  • Joined: 2010-April-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hamilton, Canada
  • Interests:Bridge duh!

Posted 2015-August-29, 10:29

I presume your playing some sort of Precision or forcing club, you don't say.

just for example say you have hearts and diamonds

you bid 1

if partner has balanced hand will bid 1N or 2N you can then bid

if partner has a suit of their own, shouldn't you be bidding naturally until a fit is found and showing

if partner has a fit for hearts hopefully your relay can discover that, but that's up to you to set out



Sarcasm is a state of mind
0

#3 User is offline   Shugart23 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 447
  • Joined: 2013-July-07

Posted 2015-August-29, 16:35

Thanks unfortunately that doesn't work for us. Once I have given partner a positive response, partner has one of three bids available : a) what are honor holding in my suit, temporarily confirming it as trump or b) ask my total controls in my hand or c) ask me strength of support in a different suit......we begin various relays when responder has given positive response...Maybe it's just a trade-off
0

#4 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2015-August-30, 01:21

What are openers options after he asked total controls of your hand and you responded?
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#5 User is offline   etha 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 232
  • Joined: 2005-August-25

Posted 2015-August-30, 02:41

Reese suggested you can jump into the second suit provided this is a nonsense response to the ask. This tends to be ok when partner bids 1NT control ask for example because you can now bid 3!d which isn't a number of controls that it is possible for you to hold. It is ok over 1!s in this case too as I doubt your artificial responses go as far as 3!d.
Sometimes though with different suits you are more stuck.

If you have the time and a decent memory learning a symmetric relay method over 1!c is worthwhile in my opinion.
0

#6 User is offline   Shugart23 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 447
  • Joined: 2013-July-07

Posted 2015-August-30, 06:06

View PostFree, on 2015-August-30, 01:21, said:

What are openers options after he asked total controls of your hand and you responded?


In addition to the three options Opener I mentioned over a positive response, I should have mentioned that he could also just set the final contract or bid non-forcing 2NT showing flat 16-17 HCP and turning Captaincy over.

Let' say I have Spades and Diamonds, 5-5, and 8+ HCP.

Over 1C I bid 1H showing Spades and a positive response

Opener bids 1S {confirming Spades as far as I think ) and I tell him how many of the top 3 Spades I have. After I answer, Opener relays which is a total Control Ask....Incidentally, if Opponents interfere they actually give us the pass and double/redouble as additional steps conserving room.

Alternatively, Partner may like my Spades or may not, but might want to find out my controls first...in this case he bids 1NT...eg 1C-1H-1NT (control ask)..After my response, Partner can bid Spades asking about top three Spade holding and confirming Spades OR bid a new suit asking about my support for that suit...lots of answers here...OR set game OR bid 2NT to turn Captaincy over

Often I never get the chance to show my Diamond suit



I
0

#7 User is offline   Shugart23 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 447
  • Joined: 2013-July-07

Posted 2015-August-30, 06:13

View Postetha, on 2015-August-30, 02:41, said:

Reese suggested you can jump into the second suit provided this is a nonsense response to the ask. This tends to be ok when partner bids 1NT control ask for example because you can now bid 3!d which isn't a number of controls that it is possible for you to hold. It is ok over 1!s in this case too as I doubt your artificial responses go as far as 3!d.
Sometimes though with different suits you are more stuck.

If you have the time and a decent memory learning a symmetric relay method over 1!c is worthwhile in my opinion.


Yeah, wife and I have good memory system and have lots of relay methods......I think your suggestion may work....give an impossible answer which sets the stage...I have to think on that...By not giving Opener the answer to his question, it could throw things off...But I think you may be on to something
0

#8 User is offline   PrecisionL 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 871
  • Joined: 2004-March-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knoxville, TN, USA
  • Interests:Diamond LM (5500+ MP) District 7, Unit 165, E. Tennessee

Posted 2015-August-30, 17:58

I used an old idea from The Hemrick Canary Club System (1966):

1 - 1NT = 5-5 exactly (any two suits) - 2 Asking (the usual follow-on) [Put NT into 2 or 2 responses]

2 = 5-5 Majors
2 = 5-5 + unknown minor [2NT asks for the minor]
2 = 5-5 + unknown minor [2NT asks for the minor]
2NT = 5-5 Minors

Now suit bid by the 1 opener is SAB-3 (if new suit) or Beta (for controls) or RELAY for shortness [you decide]
<div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div>

This post has been edited by PrecisionL: 2015-September-13, 20:33

Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)

Played Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with canapé, 11-14 NT.

Santa Fe Precision published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Also Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail Club. 2020: C3 Reborn - T-Precision with Relays & 4cd M. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Canape & Strong Relay.
0

#9 User is offline   PrecisionL 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 871
  • Joined: 2004-March-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knoxville, TN, USA
  • Interests:Diamond LM (5500+ MP) District 7, Unit 165, E. Tennessee

Posted 2015-August-30, 19:35

Another approach is to use 3 level responses to 1 as a 5-5 hand (like Fantunes):

3 = 5-5 clubs + unknown [3 asking: Bid the 2nd suit and 3NT = Diamonds]
3 = 5-5 Majors
3 = 5-5 Hearts + Diamonds
3 = 5-5 Spades + Diamonds

HINT: 1 opener's first rebid should be neutral without support or his own good suit [maybe NT]. It is too early to ask for Controls. Fit first, then strength.
Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)

Played Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with canapé, 11-14 NT.

Santa Fe Precision published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Also Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail Club. 2020: C3 Reborn - T-Precision with Relays & 4cd M. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Canape & Strong Relay.
0

#10 User is offline   steve2005 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,011
  • Joined: 2010-April-22
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hamilton, Canada
  • Interests:Bridge duh!

Posted 2015-August-30, 19:40

View PostShugart23, on 2015-August-30, 06:13, said:

Yeah, wife and I have good memory system and have lots of relay methods......I think your suggestion may work....give an impossible answer which sets the stage...I have to think on that...By not giving Opener the answer to his question, it could throw things off...But I think you may be on to something

ive seen use of a jump to break a relay with 5-5 two-suiter but it had to be good it had to have a min number of controls (which I can't remember)
Sarcasm is a state of mind
0

#11 User is offline   PrecisionL 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 871
  • Joined: 2004-March-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knoxville, TN, USA
  • Interests:Diamond LM (5500+ MP) District 7, Unit 165, E. Tennessee

Posted 2015-August-30, 21:57

steve2005 said:

ive seen use of a jump to break a relay with 5-5 two-suiter but it had to be good it had to have a min number of controls (which I can't remember)


Terence Reese in Precision Bidding & Precision Play recommended this approach (pg. 147):

1 - 1 - 1(Alpha Asking Bid for Support) - 3 (Ignoring Alpha with 0-1 and showing 5-5 & 3 or more Controls)
Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)

Played Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with canapé, 11-14 NT.

Santa Fe Precision published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Also Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail Club. 2020: C3 Reborn - T-Precision with Relays & 4cd M. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Canape & Strong Relay.
0

#12 User is offline   gordontd 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,484
  • Joined: 2009-July-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London

Posted 2015-August-31, 03:46

Transfer responses seem like a good start.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
1

#13 User is offline   PrecisionL 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 871
  • Joined: 2004-March-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knoxville, TN, USA
  • Interests:Diamond LM (5500+ MP) District 7, Unit 165, E. Tennessee

Posted 2021-April-02, 18:09

There is a new design for 5-5 positive responses to a strong opening. Per Barcelona Strong Club, 2017:

1 - 2 = any 5-5, 11+ hcp
1 - 2 = touching 5-5, 8-10 hcp
1 - 2NT = non-touching 5-5, 8-10 hcp

I have played a few years ago a version credited to Eric Rodwell:

1 - 2 = GF 5-5, 2NT Asks
3 = 5 & another 5, 3 asks
3 = 5-5 +
3 = 5-5 &
3 = &

Ultra Relay: see Daniel's web page: https://bridgewithda...19/07/Ultra.pdf
C3: Copious Canape is still my favorite system. (Ultra upgraded, PM for notes)

Played Mosca (Nightmare-Fantunes-Millennium like) system with canapé, 11-14 NT.

Santa Fe Precision published 8/19. TOP3 published 11/20. Also Magic experiment (Science Modernized) with Lenzo. 2020: Jan Eric Larsson's Cottontail Club. 2020: C3 Reborn - T-Precision with Relays & 4cd M. BFUN (Bridge For the UNbalanced) 2021: Canape & Strong Relay.
0

#14 User is offline   Zelandakh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,663
  • Joined: 2006-May-18
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2021-April-12, 20:40

For both minors, respond 1 followed by 2. Otherwise show a major, then show the second suit and then bid 2.
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users