[1eyedjack]

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MP, Instant, 34

I don't claim to have mastered Minor Suit Stayman. The only time I ever play it is when forced to do so partnering GIB. I can just about squeeze out the correct first response to MSS, but thereafter the continuations are a black art to me.

After partner makes a GS try with 5N, I reckon that at MP I would like to take my chances in 6N rather than 6C. It turns out that any slam has some work to do, so maybe 6C would have provided extra chances. That said, from North's perspective I cannot imagine that he has any reason to expect 7C to have better chances than 6N.

I know that 5N does not promise extras. Even so, I do not think that you should be forced to bid 5N opposite a limited partner when holding all the key cards. I personally don't think that North is worth any grand slam aspiration. And it has already lied with 3D to show "rebiddable" suit.

[iandayre]

All true. As I have noted several times previously, GIB has no clue when to use or not use the K ask, nor what to do with the information once it's been received. And in this case, with Clubs as trump you are not supposed to show a K above the level of the trump suit, so the ask is totally meaningless.

I am now looking at the description of 5NT - in particularly "does not show extras". Well that may be, but it should - must - show interest in a grand slam. But it appears that GIB is simply confirming the presence of all the key cards.

The entire area of the 5NT specific-King ask, and responses and follow ups thereto, needs a total revamp from BBO.

I think you are partially at fault, given your long experience with GIB, for bidding 6NT. GIB often seems to take slightly offbeat (by its logic)actions to show significant to impossible extra values, and GIB is known to be overly aggressive in MSS auctions. You have a very average 16, GIB can have no more than 16, and you should realize you'll be darn lucky to make 6C without pushing to 6NT.

[1eyedjack]

Actually I think that *in general*, GIB uses the 5NT ask in justified situations where many average human players do not. I refer to the situation where all key cards are held, blackwood bidder has no extra values, but his partner is still unlimited. The average human player simply regards the 5NT bid as purely a King ask, where in fact its primary function is to invite grand where partner can count the tricks in light of the key card count.

Where it failed in this hand is that it had a primary obligation to avoid making any grand slam try, no matter how many key cards are held, by reason of its prior knowledge that opener is limited.

Another significant problem is its use of 4N/5N as blackwood regardless of the agreed trump suit. Fine if the suit is Spades, not so fine if it is Clubs. But while there are solutions to that problem we cannot expect GIB to adopt them.

Another problem that I sometimes have with the 5NT ask, and I do not know the solution to this, is that where responder makes a step 1 or step 2 response, and all key cards are held, but the queen of trumps is not visible to the blackwood bidder, he has a choice between asking for the queen or bidding 5N to show all key cards, but cannot do both, when in reality he may want to.

We have to accept that RKCB is not going to provide all the answers. When responder (to RKCB) has a void is another weakness, and one which GIB is very poor at coping with (and I am convinced attempts to do so in a non-standard manner).

[iandayre]

I'd like to refer once again to the hand in the November 2015 thread "Negative Simulation". It shows a hand where GIB used the 5NT ask, got information that made it simple to count 13 tricks in no trump, and then signed off in 6S. And this is only one of 3 or 4 times I have seen the same thing. Can you provide an example where GIB used the 5NT K ask to reach a solid grand slam? I am not saying that can't happen but GIB is a lot better at counting HCP than it is at counting tricks.