[straube]

Moscito's 1C-3C is any hand with a suit of AKQxxxx or better. What are the continuations? How useful is this bid? We actually have 1C-3C available for this.

[newroad]

Hi Straube.

So I/we can consider the question in context, is there somewhere a link to

• An agreed current reference version of MOSCITO, or, in its absence
  
• Something this forum considers the de-facto reference version of MOSCITO?

Apologies for being slightly out of date on this.

Regards, Newroad

[straube]

 newroad, on 2016-January-19, 01:47, said:

Hi Straube.

So I/we can consider the question in context, is there somewhere a link to

• An agreed current reference version of MOSCITO, or, in its absence
  
• Something this forum considers the de-facto reference version of MOSCITO?

Apologies for being slightly out of date on this.

Regards, Newroad

You can Google for the 2005 Moscito article by Marston. I have a pdf I can send you if I receive your email.

[PrecisionL]

Here is Power Precision's design for Solid Suits (Sontag, 1979}:

Responses to 1♣:

3♥ Any 6-cd solid suit, AKQJxx, may have additional strength
3♠: Any 7-cd solid suit, AKQxxxx, no outside A or K
3NT: Any 7-cd solid suit, AKQxxxx, at least one outside control (A or K)
4♣: Any 8-cd solid suit, AKQxxxxx, may have outside strength

3NT over 3♥ & 3♠ is to play, but responder bids again with an outside A or K (after 3♥ - 3NT) and bids a singleton or void at the 4-level (after 3♠ - 3NT).

4♣ by opener after 3♥/3♠ asks for outside control (A or K or singleton). Subsequent 4NT by opener asks what the control is:

5♣ shows 2nd round control, and

5♦ shows 1st round control.

4♦ by opener after 3♥/3♠ asks responder to bid the solid suit (Opener does not know it).

4♦ by opener after 4♣ asks for outside A or K (solid suit is known)

4♥ by opener after 4♣ tells responder that the suit is unknown (pass/correct?)

My current Precision system (not on the web) uses transfer responses of 2NT thru 3♥ to show solid or semi-solid 6-cd suits and 3♠ & 3NT for Solid 7-cd suits with (3♠) and without (3NT) outside controls. Acceptance of the transfer by opener is a Beta Ask for Controls and 3NT by responder is always AKQxxx and no outside controls.

[straube]

Thanks. Responder has the option of taking captaincy. It's a little difficult when responder is fairly minimum for a GF. Perhaps (and helped by the equivalency of 3C with your 3H, 3S, etc scheme) we could use 3C to show a hand with a very good suit and no outside controls. Opener could then relay for length etc.

[Zelandakh]

 PrecisionL, on 2016-January-24, 13:32, said:

My current Precision system (not on the web) uses transfer responses of 2NT thru 3♥ to show solid or semi-solid 6-cd suits and 3♠ & 3NT for Solid 7-cd suits with (3♠) and without (3NT) outside controls. Acceptance of the transfer by opener is a Beta Ask for Controls and 3NT by responder is always AKQxxx and no outside controls.

Notwithstanding the difference in frequency, it feels wrong to use a distribution pattern of 2/2/2/2/4/4 here. An idea would be to pull the 7 card minors out of 3♠ and 3NT into the transfers giving 4/4/2/2/2/2, which seems on the surface to be a little nicer. Doing it this way, you could also choose to reverse the priority order for the 7 card majors and use 3♠ for hearts and 3NT for spades (both with or without outside strength). I guess the bids are rare enough that changing things once agreed is probably not a good idea as the chance of forgetting which variation is being used 6 months down the line is too great.

[newroad]

Hi Straube.

With respect to the original question, it is hard to imagine that Marston's intention was other than to play 3♦ as R and then the below or something very similar to it

• 3♥: solid ♣
  
• 3♠: solid ♦
  
• 3NT: solid ♥
  
• 4♣+: solid ♠, perhaps zooming into extra length, or perhaps zooming straight into control showing

The other poster's point on keeping complexity in proportionate levels is sensible. Were it me, I might finish

• 4♣: solid ♠, extra length
  
• 4♦+: solid ♠, no extra length, 6 QP's etc

and after a non-spade continuation, have the first non-3NT ask QP's and the second non-3NT step ask extra length first.

I might consider some form of shortage ask as well, but I'm not sure the space is there (and not sure I want to prejudice the above two asks to make it).

Regards, Newroad

[Zelandakh]

 newroad, on 2016-January-30, 10:52, said:

With respect to the original question, it is hard to imagine that Marston's intention was other than to play 3♦ as R and then the below or something very similar to it

• 3♥: solid ♣
  
• 3♠: solid ♦
  
• 3NT: solid ♥
  
• 4♣+: solid ♠, perhaps zooming into extra length, or perhaps zooming straight into control showing

This is one possibility. Another is that 3♦ is a relay with the long suit known (either for shortage or for controls) and 3♥ is a second relay asking for the suit. I daresay hrothgar knows for certain what Marston's continuations are but both of these are sensible approaches and either could be used by a pair irrespective of the original scheme.

[newroad]

Agreed in principle, Zelandakh.

But it would perhaps be best the other way around (i.e. 3♦ R as above and 3♥ R but saying I know the suit).

The reason otherwise is that 1♣ 3♣ 3♥[= suit not known] 3NT[=♦] may leave opener with a problem - he will often want to Pass, but can't do so lest responder has extra length/strength.

That said, your suggested approach may be superior over time - in effect, trading lots of small gains for the odd big out.

Regards, Newroad

[foobar]

 newroad, on 2016-January-30, 12:52, said:

Agreed in principle, Zelandakh.

But it would perhaps be best the other way around (i.e. 3♦ R as above and 3♥ R but saying I know the suit).

The reason otherwise is that 1♣ 3♣ 3♥[= suit not known] 3NT[=♦] may leave opener with a problem - he will often want to Pass, but can't do so lest responder has extra length/strength.

That said, your suggested approach may be superior over time - in effect, trading lots of small gains for the odd big out.

Regards, Newroad

I looked the B2SYM model for Moscito and as per it, the 3♦ relay assumes that opener knows the solid suit. 3♥ / 3♠ show 8xxx / 7xxx shapes (presumed 7(321)), ostensibly with zoom for extra QPs.

For the uninitiated, the now defunct B2SYM was an excellent tool for practicing and modelling relay systems (message me for details).