[Zelandakh]

kenrexford, on 2016-January-20, 05:14, said:

IMO, anything within 1 card of 4441 seems right, which includes 5440, 5431, and 4432.

The second definition I gave above could also be written as anything within 1 card of 5440 and that also seems quite reasonable. That would allow 5431s and disallow 4432s, which seems to me to match what we know of the way the regulation is policed in practise even without the term being properly defined by the ACBL. I do agree that terms used should be defined though - perhaps an ACBL member could email the relevant committee and ask what the official position is.

[Shugart23]

I think the thread has just about run its course, but I was really responding to someone's request to show 'evidence' So it seems clear from GCC definition that I can open 2C or 2D as a natural suit bid with as few as 3 cards....probably need to alert it...It also seems clear that I can open 2H or 2S as a natural suit bid with as few as 4 cards....so if this is this case, I see it hard to argue that a 4333 is NOT a natural 3 suited hand given the 4 card suit is a Major, as counter-intuitive as it may seem

[campboy]

Zelandakh, on 2016-January-20, 06:11, said:

The second definition I gave above could also be written as anything within 1 card of 5440 and that also seems quite reasonable. That would allow 5431s and disallow 4432s, which seems to me to match what we know of the way the regulation is policed in practise even without the term being properly defined by the ACBL. I do agree that terms used should be defined though - perhaps an ACBL member could email the relevant committee and ask what the official position is.

I'd be more inclined to view 4432 as three-suited than either 6430 or 5530, which fall within "within 1 card of 5440".

[Zelandakh]

campboy, on 2016-January-20, 07:25, said:

I'd be more inclined to view 4432 as three-suited than either 6430 or 5530, which fall within "within 1 card of 5440".

Probably. The only distributions you are safe with are 5440, 4441 and 5431. It would be interesting to read what the official position actually is even when I am not in ACBLland myself.

[blackshoe]

mgoetze, on 2016-January-19, 13:11, said:

Actually, words in the GCC mean whatever the director wants them to mean, regardless of what anyone thinks.

Thank you, Humpty Dumpty.

[blackshoe]

mike777, on 2016-January-19, 17:33, said:

I see the OP asking 2 main questions.


1) is 5431 and 4432 a 3 suited hand...I showed evidence it is not.
2) is it GCC legal to play 2clbs to show any 5431 or 4432. I don't know..It would be nice to hear from some current ACBL directors on that question. I was last a director in the early seventies.

If I had 26 cards in my hand, I'd call the director.

From the GCC:

Quote

3. TWO CLUBS ARTIFICIAL OPENING BID indicating one of: a) a strong hand. b) a three-suiter with a minimum of 10 HCP.
5. TWO DIAMOND ARTIFICIAL OPENING BID indicating one of: a) a strong hand. b) a three-suiter with a minimum of 10 HCP.

Given that these two rules are identical, and given that opening 2♦ in Precision on (43)15 is legal, it seems very unconvincing to argue that opening 2♣ on a similar distribution (I gather that the singleton could be in any suit, but I hardly think that matters) is not legal. Either way, I would not call 4432 a three suiter, or even a two suiter. Calling a hand any kind of a "suiter" implies that you think it is better to look for a suit fit than for a NT contract. For me, if opener has a balanced hand, he should show a balanced hand. I would also say that trying to add "or a balanced hand" to your 2m opening would mean it does not fit whichever of these rules you're trying to apply.

[kenrexford]

1C-X("Alert")

Yes?

My partner's double might show a balanced hand, like 4432/3442/4342.