[eagles123]

I voted splinter but imo 3d has to be better than a direct 4h if you're not splintering as it gives p a chance to cue with extras, and if he just bids 3h then 4h must show a mild slam try anyway.

[eagles123]

I voted splinter but imo 3d has to be better than a direct 4h if you're not splintering as it gives p a chance to cue with extras, and if he just bids 3h then 4h must show a mild slam try anyway.

[Tramticket]

 Phil, on 2016-November-15, 07:51, said:

If you posted the North hand separately, I think you would get a fair amount of support for x.

I presume that you mean double to show a three-suited hand? In which case, I agree that this is a reasonable alternative. I don't think the hand is quite strong enough to double and then bid hearts.

I don't like Michaels on 5-4 hands.

[Jinksy]

 Phil, on 2016-November-15, 07:51, said:

If you posted the North hand separately, I think you would get a fair amount of support for x.

I'm sure you would, but based on similar recent threads on here I'd expect more for 2H planning to X another spade (or perhaps diamond) bid. Isn't this close to the canonical hand for that sequence?

[MrAce]

 Jinksy, on 2016-November-15, 17:28, said:

I'm sure you would, but based on similar recent threads on here I'd expect more for 2H planning to X another spade (or perhaps diamond) bid. Isn't this close to the canonical hand for that sequence?

I am with Phil on this one.
If you think this hand is only 17 hcp you may prefer to just start overcall.
To me it is way stronger than 17 hcp hands that we choose a simple overcall.

[aguahombre]

I don't think it is close. Dbl the first time --planning to bid 2♥ on the next round -- would seem to describe that hand better.
2♥ first and then dbl next time if it works out that way would suggest more like 1-6-3-3.

Anyway, perhaps you two (Timo/Phil) would like to project how the Double might change the result. I would probably still bid 4♥ as advancer, and the ball would be back in North's court. The fact that I likely have 5 or six hearts might be enough for Pard to take a view.

[MrAce]

 aguahombre, on 2016-November-16, 00:48, said:

I don't think it is close. Dbl the first time --planning to bid 2♥ on the next round -- would seem to describe that hand better.
2♥ first and then dbl next time if it works out that way would suggest more like 1-6-3-3.

Anyway, perhaps you two (Timo/Phil) would like to project how the Double might change the result. I would probably still bid 4♥ as advancer, and the ball would be back in North's court. The fact that I likely have 5 or six hearts might be enough for Pard to take a view.

Over double, if you bid 4♥, which is perfectly reasonable, North will have much more appetite for slam than 2♥-4♥ auction for sure. Even if he does not drag to slam he certainly will make one more noise over 4♥ after double. As I said in my previous reply that N hand is way stronger than just 17 hcp, after a big fit, it becomes monster imo.

K&R says N hand is worth 20 hcp before fit was found. Has 1st round control in all 3 suits and singleton in enemy suit plus a good hook (♣) behind opener.

[Jinksy]

So if you double on the north hand, how high are you willing to go to introduce hearts? Ie if 2♠/3♠ (or even 4♠?) comes back, will you bid hearts, or double again?

[aguahombre]

 Jinksy, on 2016-November-16, 08:05, said:

So if you double on the north hand, how high are you willing to go to introduce hearts? Ie if 2♠/3♠ (or even 4♠?) comes back, will you bid hearts, or double again?

The point, IMO, is that when we Double with that hand we intend to later show it was a very strong t/o double, and if we introduce hearts ourselves, it would only be if partner advanced with something relatively low. In all cases of the opponents raising spades and partner remaining silent we would just Double again.

Introducing Hearts ourselves, even if only 2s comes back around would overstate the heart suit, when we really want to show power and doubt about what trump should be.

[jogs]

 Tramticket, on 2016-November-15, 06:22, said:

---

Although I received criticism from team-mates, it is interesting that in a competent field of 12 teams, no one bid the slam:
- 10 X 510
- 1 X 480
- 1 X 800 (5♠x)

While many on this forum prefer the double, your partner's 2♥ call makes it easier to find slam.
The heart suit isn't long enough or strong enough to introduce at high levels.

(1♠) - 2♥

To find slam you need to be playing a natural style after an overcall.

(1♠) - 2♥ - (p) - 2♠
(p) - 3♣ - (p) - 3♠
(p) - 4♣ - (p) - 4♦
(p) - 6♥ - all pass

After opponents open, just giving up on seven makes it easier to bid.

[ShirleyMqz]

I'm for 4♥. Get to the contract we can make and take away their bidding room. I'm not in love with this hand; my ♠QJ are wasted and we could easily have three minor suit losers off the top. On a really bad day we will also have a spade loser (more likely since the lead will be coming through my hand) and we won't even make four.

Say partner has ♠xx ♥AKJxxx ♦QJx ♣Qx. Not even a minimum and definitely worth the 2♥ bid. The inevitable spade lead comes through, setting up a spade trick for the defense. We can draw trump but as soon as the opponents get the lead they're cashing four tricks.

[Jinksy]

 ShirleyMqz, on 2016-November-16, 22:20, said:

Say partner has ♠xx ♥AKJxxx ♦QJx ♣Qx. Not even a minimum and definitely worth the 2♥ bid. The inevitable spade lead comes through, setting up a spade trick for the defense. We can draw trump but as soon as the opponents get the lead they're cashing four tricks.

You'll be playing in 4♥ anyway if P with that hand hears you splinter.

[WellSpyder]

 1eyedjack, on 2016-November-14, 15:17, said:

If we have an 11 card fit then they have a 10 card fit, and it ain't in Spades. My guess is that it is in Diamonds, with Clubs coming a close second.

I'm not sure your maths is quite right here. 11 cards out of our 26 in one suit leaves 15 across the other 3 suits. If we have 5 in each suit then oppo have 3 8-card fits, but not even a 9-card fit let alone a 10-card one. (Give partner 1543 opposite this 4612 shape.)

[jogs]

There is little need to jump to 4♥.
First RHO didn't raise spades and we have AQJx.
Second hearts outranks the minors. Therefore we can outbid their minor at every level.
On this board we can safely explore our options slowly.

[Kaitlyn S]

 jogs, on 2016-November-17, 09:01, said:

Second hearts outranks the minors. Therefore we can outbid their minor at every level.

Hearts may outrank the minors but that doesn't mean you can make as many tricks in hearts as they do in their minor.

Secondly, even if you can make 5H and them only 5D, I'd rather be playing 4H than defending 6D (or playing 6H depending on how seriously you take our "outbid at every level" statement.)

[aguahombre]

 jogs, on 2016-November-17, 09:01, said:

There is little need to jump to 4♥.
First RHO didn't raise spades and we have AQJx.
Second hearts outranks the minors. Therefore we can outbid their minor at every level.
On this board we can safely explore our options slowly.

I am not sure what kind of 'exploring' that would be. Outbidding their minor at every level or "walking the dog" can work badly in a lot of ways. The most common bad thing which comes from walking the dog is when partner breaks tempo and you then try the "But, I was always gonna..." defense.

[jogs]

 aguahombre, on 2016-November-17, 12:57, said:

I am not sure what kind of 'exploring' that would be. Outbidding their minor at every level or "walking the dog" can work badly in a lot of ways. The most common bad thing which comes from walking the dog is when partner breaks tempo and you then try the "But, I was always gonna..." defense.

Assuming opponents remain silent, I've given the auction. RHO passed. There won't be a walking-the-dog type auction very often.
LHO needs to make a freebid on the 3 level. Does happen, but not frequently.

[jogs]

 WellSpyder, on 2016-November-17, 05:57, said:

I'm not sure your maths is quite right here. 11 cards out of our 26 in one suit leaves 15 across the other 3 suits. If we have 5 in each suit then oppo have 3 8-card fits, but not even a 9-card fit let alone a 10-card one. (Give partner 1543 opposite this 4612 shape.)

Partnership pattern and opponents' pattern. A subject virtually totally ignored by bridge writers.
5-11-5-5. Opponents are 8-2-8-8. They can be both 4-1-4-4. In this case they can both have a singleton heart. They can also have 12 diamonds.
This is about likelihood. Unless LHO has 5 cards in a second suit 2♥ has probably shut opponents out.