[661_Pete]

Playing Acol. In this hand (NS vul, dealer E):

---

there is a fairly obvious 6♣ but I (sitting W) was very lucky to get there without mishap. Partner opened 1♠ and I responded 2♣. Partner responded 4♣ - not the best bid, I think a splinter 4♦ would have been better, but we weren't playing splinters.

Anyway I launched into 4NT 0314 without thinking too much about it. I'd clean forgotten the old advice - 'beware of Blackwood if in clubs!' What if partner had responded 5♦ showing 1/4? I probably didn't deserve to get away with it. Anyway it ended up 5♥ - 6♣.

Other options (again not on our card) would have been for me to cue-bid 4♥ and if partner bids 4♠, cue-bid 5♠. But I still need to find out about the diamonds. I'm sure others will suggest something better!

[Cyberyeti]

In some ways this would be easier to bid without K♦, where you could bid 3♣ with a clear conscience.

I quite like the 4♣ bid as it's reasonably clear what it is.

Over this the auction continues 4♥-4♠(showing a diamond control as well as partner's denied one)-4N and if partner only shows 1 you sign off in 5♠ and hope you can make it

[helene_t]

Your auction is OK. I don't think East should splinter with a singleton king.

Maybe you should just punt 6♣ over 4♣. Even with a three-keycards response you probably won't be able to bid 7 anyway.

There are ways to ask for keycards safely with a minor suit as trump, even 1430 instead of 0314 would work better in this situation but then again, there are other auctions where it works worse. So I wouldn't lose too much sleep on it.

Well done!

[Tramticket]

661_Pete, on 2018-August-17, 02:04, said:

Playing Acol. In this hand (NS vul, dealer E):

---

there is a fairly obvious 6♣ but I (sitting W) was very lucky to get there without mishap. Partner opened 1♠ and I responded 2♣. Partner responded 4♣ - not the best bid, I think a splinter 4♦ would have been better, but we weren't playing splinters.

Anyway I launched into 4NT 0314 without thinking too much about it. I'd clean forgotten the old advice - 'beware of Blackwood if in clubs!' What if partner had responded 5♦ showing 1/4? I probably didn't deserve to get away with it. Anyway it ended up 5♥ - 6♣.

Other options (again not on our card) would have been for me to cue-bid 4♥ and if partner bids 4♠, cue-bid 5♠. But I still need to find out about the diamonds. I'm sure others will suggest something better!

I like the 4♣ bid, which must be forcing - even in Acol and which also promises a five-card spade suit so you now know that you have a spade fit as well as a club fit. 4NT RKCB is safe since you have 5♠ available as a safety net and Cyberyeti's auction looks right to me.

[StevenG]

What happens on a ♥ lead?

[Cyberyeti]

StevenG, on 2018-August-17, 05:03, said:

What happens on a ♥ lead?

You make 6♣ but not 6♠ unless trumps are 3-0 and spades 4-1.

[StevenG]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-August-17, 05:25, said:

You make 6♣ but not 6♠ unless trumps are 3-0 and spades 4-1.

Do you? I see 11 tricks and a loser in each red suit. Am I being dense?

[Cyberyeti]

StevenG, on 2018-August-17, 05:57, said:

Do you? I see 11 tricks and a loser in each red suit. Am I being dense?

5th spade takes care of the heart loser then give up a diamond, have to reenter in trumps which is why you can't cope with trumps 3-0 and spades 4-1.

[The_Badger]

With 5-5 ♣s + ♠s I always open 1♣. Archaic I know but that was how I was taught Acol a long, long time ago. As for the actual bidding on the hand beyond that, there's nothing wrong with 4♣.

With a 1♣ opening, if West can resist bashing out a 3NT response and can temporise with a 1♦ bid, then the rest of the auction towards slam is easy. For example: 1♣ - 1♦ - 1♠ - 2♥4th suit gf - 2♠ - 3♣ - 3♦, etc. leaving loads of room to find the ♣ slam.

[Cyberyeti]

The_Badger, on 2018-August-17, 08:16, said:

With 5-5 ♣s + ♠s I always open 1♣. Archaic I know but that was how I was taught Acol a long, long time ago. As for the actual bidding on the hand beyond that, there's nothing wrong with 4♣.

With a 1♣ opening, if West can resist bashing out a 3NT response and can temporise with a 1♦ bid, then the rest of the auction towards slam is easy. For example: 1♣ - 1♦ - 1♠ - 2♥4th suit gf - 2♠ - 3♣ - 3♦, etc. leaving loads of room to find the ♣ slam.

It's trivial after 1♣, 2♣ inverted solves that.

We open 1♣ on some 5-5s and 1♠ on others, AQJxx, x, xx, AQJxx or similar is a 1♣ opener and a 2♠(NF) rebid for us, as is the bigger hand with more broken suits where we rebid 1♠ then 2♠. This one we open 1♠.

[661_Pete]

Oppos led K♥. Trumps were 3-0 but spades were 3-2, making it easy to get rid of the heart loser.

Just trying to work out, if spades had been 4-1, how I'd have played it. Draw trumps in 3 rounds, cash 3 spades, ruff a spade, back to dummy with a trump, throw heart on last spade, then diamond to K. Assume defence cash their A, then my Q♦ is good and I still have a trump to ruff my last ♦.

[edit] just seen how that doesn't work, because if defence lead back a heart I've no trumps left....

[661_Pete]

Of course, it would all have been a lot easier if defence had led their A♦....

[GrahamJson]

This looks like an easy slam to bash but a more difficult one to bid accurately. As the actual bidding went the slam would be quickly off if east’s red suits were reversed.

Whilst clearly east’s hand is strong in support of clubs I don’t think it is quite good enough for the 4C bid. I think a better sequence would be 1S - 2C - 3C - 3S - 4C - 4H - 6C. The raise to 3C allows west to show delayed spade support after which two cue bids show that east has values in hand (otherwise he would sign off in 4S rather than cue bid 4C) and that west also has extras but no diamond control. Thus the 4H bid tells east almost everything about the west hand; probably 3325 or 3235 distribution, heart ace, good clubs and the king of spades (he would hardly go slamming opposite a limited hand without the latter).

[nekthen]

I also like CyberYeti’s sequence.
A couple of observations.
1. The scoring is important, at MPs 4c more or less forces you to slam or indicates a hand totally unsuitable for 3N so I would bid 3c, which I believe is forcing. At IMPs 4c is fine.
2. The implication behind the cuebids of 4h and 4s that the 4s bidder has at least 2nd round control of ♦ is very important
3. I have started playing jump support to 4 of a minor as rkcb so I would need 2nd round control of both red suits to use it happily here. I would probably bid 4d at IMPs and 3c at pairs.

[nekthen]

I also like CyberYeti’s sequence.
A couple of observations.
1. The scoring is important, at MPs 4c more or less forces you to slam or indicates a hand totally unsuitable for 3N so I would bid 3c, which I believe is forcing. At IMPs 4c is fine.
2. The implication behind the cuebids of 4h and 4s that the 4s bidder has at least 2nd round control of ♦ is very important
3. I have started playing jump support to 4 of a minor as rkcb so I would need 2nd round control of both red suits to use it happily here. I would probably bid 4d at IMPs and 3c at pairs.

[Cyberyeti]

nekthen, on 2018-August-18, 02:13, said:

I also like CyberYeti’s sequence.
A couple of observations.
1. The scoring is important, at MPs 4c more or less forces you to slam or indicates a hand totally unsuitable for 3N so I would bid 3c, which I believe is forcing. At IMPs 4c is fine.
2. The implication behind the cuebids of 4h and 4s that the 4s bidder has at least 2nd round control of ♦ is very important
3. I have started playing jump support to 4 of a minor as rkcb so I would need 2nd round control of both red suits to use it happily here. I would probably bid 4d at IMPs and 3c at pairs.

3♣ is not forcing in Acol unless you like forcing with 11 opposite 9 and this is the problem.

There are plenty of minimum Acol 2/1s that will pass where game is excellent, all you need is x, xxx, xxxx, Kxxxx as a base and add a red ace or ♥KQ (and you will have more than this)

[GrahamJson]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-August-17, 02:54, said:

In some ways this would be easier to bid without K♦, where you could bid 3♣ with a clear conscience.

I quite like the 4♣ bid as it's reasonably clear what it is.

Over this the auction continues 4♥-4♠(showing a diamond control as well as partner's denied one)-4N and if partner only shows 1 you sign off in 5♠ and hope you can make it

This seems very risky. In this auction west has not shown or implied any spade support so 5S could be completely unplayable. Also, west might take it into his head that 5S is some sort of grand slam try.

[GrahamJson]

Cyberyeti, on 2018-August-18, 02:30, said:

3♣ is not forcing in Acol unless you like forcing with 11 opposite 9 and this is the problem.

There are plenty of minimum Acol 2/1s that will pass where game is excellent, all you need is x, xxx, xxxx, Kxxxx as a base and add a red ace or ♥KQ (and you will have more than this)

Equally if you take away the heart ace from west’s hand he will still have a 2C bid but 5C stands no chance whilst 4S needs just a trump break. Perhaps after the sequence 1S - 2C - 4C a bid of 4S should be non forcing.

[msjennifer]

Once a suit fit has been found we use the LTC..Here Openers hand is a 6 losers hand and we show that by bidding 4C.With a 7 losers hand,responder will sign off in 4S.Here the responder has 6 losers but No control in diamonds and he will bid 4H showing a 6Losers hand lacking a D control.Opener having that shall bid 6C.I know that this method may be crude but we have found it to be very satisfactory.

[Cyberyeti]

GrahamJson, on 2018-August-18, 05:43, said:

This seems very risky. In this auction west has not shown or implied any spade support so 5S could be completely unplayable. Also, west might take it into his head that 5S is some sort of grand slam try.

5♠ is bid by the hand with Kxx, he knows he has spade support.