[Povratnik]

There is one thing that interests me for long time, but it is far from urgent, so I never asked...

Could non-Americans compete for ACBL points on BBO?

If the answer is YES, under what conditions?

(This weekend ACBL tournament reminded me of the issue)

[steve2005]

Of course they can BBO ACBL tournaments are open to all.
Of course without an ACBL number the points won't get registered.

As an exception, I believe the upcoming NABC Robot individual tournament only ACBL members are allowed to register.

[hrothgar]

Povratnik, on 2019-November-09, 10:55, said:

If the answer is YES, under what conditions?

Tithing to Memphis

[diana_eva]

Povratnik, on 2019-November-09, 10:55, said:

There is one thing that interests me for long time, but it is far from urgent, so I never asked...

Could non-Americans compete for ACBL points on BBO?

If the answer is YES, under what conditions?

(This weekend ACBL tournament reminded me of the issue)

Yes anyone can play in most ACBL tournaments. The NABC Robot Tournament and related training events are restricted to ACBL members only. This means BBO needs a valid ACBL number associated with the username.

So for restricted ACBL events you need to become an ACBL member, then let BBO know what your ACBL number is by clicking Update ACBL Number.

Links below:

Become an ACBL member.

Update your ACBL number.

[pescetom]

diana_eva, on 2019-November-10, 04:05, said:

Links below:

Become an ACBL member.

It looks like one can become an ACBL member even if resident outside the Americas and a member of a different NBO.
Not sure if all other NBOs allow members to join ACBL too.

[barmar]

pescetom, on 2019-November-10, 07:40, said:

It looks like one can become an ACBL member even if resident outside the Americas and a member of a different NBO.

Indeed, foreign players have become a mainstay of top-level ACBL events like Spingold, Vanderbilt, and Reisinger.

[Vampyr]

pescetom, on 2019-November-10, 07:40, said:

It looks like one can become an ACBL member even if resident outside the Americas and a member of a different NBO.
Not sure if all other NBOs allow members to join ACBL too.

How would an NBO stop a member from also joining another NBO? Why would they want to do this?

[pescetom]

Vampyr, on 2019-November-11, 17:05, said:

How would an NBO stop a member from also joining another NBO? Why would they want to do this?

It's quite unusual in Olympic sports for it to be possible to join more than one NBO. In cycling for instance it's impossible as your membership code is assigned directly by the UCI at world level. In athletics I could get away with it but it's against my NBO's rules. They can enforce the rules by suspending me. I also have to ask permission to compete abroad. There are of course insurance implications in these sports which may be lacking in the case of bridge.

[sfi]

pescetom, on 2019-November-10, 07:40, said:

It looks like one can become an ACBL member even if resident outside the Americas and a member of a different NBO.
Not sure if all other NBOs allow members to join ACBL too.

The ACBL isn't an NBO as far as I know. It's just an organisation that runs bridge tournaments.

[pescetom]

sfi, on 2019-November-12, 06:43, said:

The ACBL isn't an NBO as far as I know. It's just an organisation that runs bridge tournaments.

The ACBL site asks "are you now or have you ever been a member of another national bridge organisation?".
Sounds like they consider themselves one.

I think they are however not formally an NBO within WBF.
This page explains the rather contorted relationship between ACBL and USBF and NABF.

[sfi]

Zone 2 comprises three national organisations, all of which overlap with the ACBL. But the USBF is the national organisation for the USA.

http://www.worldbrid...e-zones/qzone2/

[Vampyr]

pescetom, on 2019-November-12, 03:16, said:

It's quite unusual in Olympic sports for it to be possible to join more than one NBO. In cycling for instance it's impossible as your membership code is assigned directly by the UCI at world level. In athletics I could get away with it but it's against my NBO's rules. They can enforce the rules by suspending me. I also have to ask permission to compete abroad. There are of course insurance implications in these sports which may be lacking in the case of bridge.

Are Olympic sports really organised by National Bridge Organisations? I find this astonishing. Also I have competed in at least 15 different countries, and have never had to ask permission from the EBU (nor the ACBL, of which I am also a member). I am a member of the EBL, and again it is a matter of supreme indifference to them whether or not I compete outside of Europe.

In most places you are allowed to participate in tournaments if you are a member in good standing of another NBO. In the ACBL foreigners do need to ask for special dispensation to play in the Life Masters Pairs or the Blue Ribbon Pairs.

[Vampyr]

sfi, on 2019-November-12, 07:44, said:

Zone 2 comprises three national organisations, all of which overlap with the ACBL. But the USBF is the national organisation for the USA.

http://www.worldbrid...e-zones/qzone2/

Also the ACBL is supposed to represent “North America” yet most of the countries in North America are in a different zone.

Note: aren’t there four in the ACBL? USA, Canada, Mexico and Bermuda?

[pescetom]

Vampyr, on 2019-November-12, 09:32, said:

Are Olympic sports really organised by National Bridge Organisations? I find this astonishing. Also I have competed in at least 15 different countries, and have never had to ask permission from the EBU (nor the ACBL, of which I am also a member). I am a member of the EBL, and again it is a matter of supreme indifference to them whether or not I compete outside of Europe.

In most places you are allowed to participate in tournaments if you are a member in good standing of another NBO. In the ACBL foreigners do need to ask for special dispensation to play in the Life Masters Pairs or the Blue Ribbon Pairs.

Olympic sports are organised nationally by National Organisations specific to each sport, of course. In physical sports it is quite normal that you are allowed to participate in many high level competitions if you are a member of another National Organisation. Much more difficult that a foreigner can compete for their regional or national championships, or that they allow a national to compete for another nation.

As you say, bridge seems to have a different model despite the olympic label.

[Gerardo]

Bermuda left the Zone 2, joined Zone 5, Central America and Caribbean.

However, Bermuda is still Unit 198, in the District 2 of the ACBL.

[sfi]

Vampyr, on 2019-November-12, 09:35, said:

Also the ACBL is supposed to represent “North America” yet most of the countries in North America are in a different zone.

Note: aren’t there four in the ACBL? USA, Canada, Mexico and Bermuda?

That's the point - the ACBL doesn't "represent" any countries. It is a governing body for bridge, but is not a national one. The WBF has separate zones for North America (zone 2) and Central America and the Caribbean (zone 5).

As I understand it this separation means the ACBL isn't subject to WBF restrictions on things like drug policy, player sanctions and the right to appeal decisions to the CAS, among others.

Bermuda is in zone 5, which doesn't preclude it from being part of the ACBL. It looks like the Bermuda Bridge Club is indeed affiliated with the ACBL, and they're hosting a regional event in January.

[johnu]

pescetom, on 2019-November-12, 07:31, said:

The ACBL site asks "are you now or have you ever been a member of another national bridge organisation?".
Sounds like they consider themselves one.

My guess is that they want to be able to check if the applicant is suspended, or under disciplinary penalties in another bridge organization.

There are hundreds, maybe thousands of players that have ACBL membership who do not live in North America and are members of organizations in their home countries.

[johnu]

Vampyr, on 2019-November-12, 09:32, said:

In most places you are allowed to participate in tournaments if you are a member in good standing of another NBO. In the ACBL foreigners do need to ask for special dispensation to play in the Life Masters Pairs or the Blue Ribbon Pairs.

The reason "foreigners" need to get special permission to play in some events is because there are either ACBL masterpoint requirements (ie Have to be an ACBL Life Master to play in Life Master pairs), or achievement requirements (Need to finish 1st or 2nd in regional gold point events or high finish in national event, etc) in the case of Blue Ribbon pairs.

It wouldn't make sense for a foreign world champion caliber player to play in a limited masterpoint event, or maybe a gold rush event because they haven't played in enough ACBL tournaments.

[Vampyr]

johnu, on 2019-November-12, 15:07, said:

The reason "foreigners" need to get special permission to play in some events is because there are either ACBL masterpoint requirements (ie Have to be an ACBL Life Master to play in Life Master pairs), or achievement requirements (Need to finish 1st or 2nd in regional gold point events or high finish in national event, etc) in the case of Blue Ribbon pairs.

It wouldn't make sense for a foreign world champion caliber player to play in a limited masterpoint event, or maybe a gold rush event because they haven't played in enough ACBL tournaments.

Also you have to ask to be given the number of masterpoints you feel you deserve, preferably x2 or x3 to make sure you get in the top or second bracket of these ubiquitous knockouts.

[barmar]

pescetom, on 2019-November-12, 07:31, said:

The ACBL site asks "are you now or have you ever been a member of another national bridge organisation?".
Sounds like they consider themselves one.

I guess you're interpreting the use of "another" to imply this. I suspect they didn't choose their words so carefully. They probably didn't mean this in the same way the WBF uses the term NBO to mean the organizations that send representatives to international comments, but in a more generic sense of bridge leagues that organize play within specific countries.