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Lebensohl....for beginners/ Intermediates

#1 User is offline   Laird 

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Posted 2003-August-01, 06:26

Hello All

Onedown in his first class presentation to beginners/ Intermediates said that Lebensohl was one convention worth learning. So....

After partner opens 1nt and next player intervenes....
Ron Klinger states that " playing Lebensohl foregoes the natural use of 2nt and that these principles apply"...

* New suit at the 2 level is [glow=red,2,300]non forcing[/glow]
* New suit at the 3 level is [glow=red,2,300]forcing[/glow]
* Bidding 2nt requires opener to bid 3c. Responder may pass this or bid a new suit below 3 of their suit as a [glow=red,2,300]non-forcing action[/glow], competing for the part score.
* Bid their suit at once is Stayman and [glow=red,2,300]promises a stopper
[/glow] in ther suit.
* Bid 2nt and rebid in their suit over the forced 3c is Stayman and [glow=red,2,300]denies[/glow] a stopper.
* Bid 3nt at once = the values for 3nt and promises a stopper but [glow=red,2,300]denies a major[/glow].
* Bid 2nt and rebid 3nt over the forced 3c = the same as bidding 3nt at once but [glow=red,2,300]denies a stopper[/glow].
* Jump bid in a new suit = 5+ suit [glow=red,2,300]forcing to game and promises a stopper[/glow]
* Bid 2nt and rebid over the forced 3c in a new suit higher than their 3 of a suit = 5+ suit, [glow=red,2,300]forcing to game and promises a stopper[/glow]

Would some experienced player(s) take this introduction forward to the next stage and show by 1or 2 [glow=red,2,300]simple examples [/glow]how Lebensohl can be applied with advantage.

[glow=red,2,300]Please keep in mind the posting area[/glow].

Kind regards
John

ps.... I Lebensohl equally valid for strong and weak nt bids?
UDCA...'You take the High Road an I'll take the Low Road'...
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#2 User is offline   luis 

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Posted 2003-August-01, 06:43

Just some random comments that may or may not be useful or start a series of questions or explanations from other players.

1) When do we use Leb?

a) When we open a strong NT and they bid 2x
B) When they open a weak 2 and pd doubles
c) When we open a strong club and they bid 2x

Other situations can be added per partneship agreement, a) and B) are the more common but not many players agree to play Leb after the opps open a weak 2. I think it is a valuable treatment.

2) Weak NT and Leb

Playing a weak NT there're some arguments IMO to use a takeout double if they bid 2x, a trap pass should also be used with opener encouraged to reopen with dbl when he has 2 cards in their suit. This takeout DBL may or may not be combined with LEB upon partnership agreement, IMO a TO double plus Leb is a good scheme for weak NTers.

3) Exotic 2x bids over our 1NT

It is worth discussing the meaning of our bids when they show a two suiter over 1NT or when they bid a two-way bid for example playing SUCTION. There're four common situations:

a) 2x: Shows only one suit (the suit bid or another, maybe a xfer)
B) 2x shows 2 specific suits
c) 2x shows 1 specific suit and promises another (ex 2h = h+ m)
d) 2x is multi (ex 2c= d or h+s)

I don't think that regular Leb can be used succesfully against the 4 combinations. IMO each of these 4 situations has to be discussed in your parnership if you plan to play Leb. I won't recommend a meta-defense here.

4) Finally Rub or Leb.

IMO Rubensohl is as easy (or as difficult) as Leb and has some advantages so I generally prefer to play Rubensohl instead of Leb, but maybe this is for another thread.
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#3 User is offline   flytoox 

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Posted 2003-August-01, 06:54

Good thread. I remembered sb said Lebensohl is one of the best conventoin in bridge, perhaps after stayman only.

Some example using Lebensohl:

W N E S
1N 2S ?

SUPPOSE 1N=15-7

(1) S: X
H: XX
D: KJTXXX
C: AKXX
BID 3D HERE, FORCING TO GAME

(2) S: AJX
H: XXX
D: KQXXX
C: XX
BID 2N, forcing pd to bid 3c, then you bid 3N. The more time you bid notrump, the more stoppers you have in opp's suit. Some may play different style.

(3) S: XX
H: XXX
D: KJTXXX
C: XX
BID 2N, after pd's 3c, you bid 3d

(4) S: XX
H: XXX
D: X
C: KTXXXXX
BID 2N, then pass pd's 3c.


But Lebensohl has too many different vein to list in this short post. A widely used one is after Opp's weak 2 opening and pd's takeout dbl:
W N E S
2S X - ?

(1) S: XX
H: AQXX
D: KJXX
C: QXX

BID 3H, forcing to game.

(2) S: XX
H: KJXXX
D; XXXX
C: XX

BID 2N, after pd's 3c, bid 3H, showing weak hand with long suit.



An extension of Lebenohl is in competitve auction when you want to compete only to 3 level, you can bid 2N first. By using this extended Lebensohl you can distinguish a competitive hand and a game try hand:

W N E S
1H 1S 2H
2S ?

(1) S; AX
H: AQTXX
D: KXX
C: AJX
bid 3H, game try

(2) S: AX
H: AQTXXX
D; KX
C: XXX
bid 2N, then back to 3H.

Responder can use it in a similar way.


Correct me if this is wrong:)

However, I am not sure what to do after Opp's minor suit interventoin with an invitional hand:

W N E S
1N 2C ?

2C is natural. I hold:
S: XXX
H: AQTXX
D: KXX
C: XX
3H is forcing, 2H is to play. So shall I bid 2N then 3H?
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#4 User is offline   csdenmark 

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Posted 2003-August-01, 07:14

Extractions from "The Lebensohl convention complete in contract bridge" by Ron Andersen 1987.


After opponents weak 2/3-open and INFO-DBL from partner for description:
http://groups.msn.co.../lebensohl.msnw

Lebensohl over normal openings natural/non-natural:
http://groups.msn.com/bridgeFILES/lebensoh...terference.msnw

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Karen's Bridge Library - Lebensohl over weak 2: http://www.prairiene.../bridge/leb.htm

Karen's Bridge Library - Lebensohl over reverses: http://www.prairiene...dge/rev-leb.htm




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#5 User is offline   luis 

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Posted 2003-August-01, 07:19

Quote

However, I am not sure what to do after Opp's minor suit interventoin with an invitional hand:

W N E S
1N 2C ?

2C is natural. I hold:
S: XXX
H: AQTXX
D: KXX
C: XX
3H is forcing, 2H is to play. So shall I bid 2N then 3H?


If you play leb you lose the invitational hands, in this particular case I think that a forcing 3h bid is fine. I wish most of my games would feature 24+ combined HCP :-)

Tip:
When they bid 2c over 1NT you can just ignore the bid and play "system-on" many times it's rewarding. Use dbl as stayman, 2d transfer etc etc etc. This is one flexible approach.
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#6 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2003-August-01, 08:23

For the people who might not know rubensohl:

Dbl = penalties
2X = to play
2NT = transfer C (*)
3C = trf D (*)
3D = trf H (*)
3H = trf S (*)
3S = asks stop in opp's suit without a 4 card M
3NT = to play
(*) transfering opp's suit is game forcing stayman

I usually play a combination of Lebensohl and Rubensohl.
We play 2NT lebensohl (normally invitational hand) and the rest rubensohl. Like that we can make a difference between FG stayman and invitational stayman. After an intervention of 2C or 2D (natural or DONT) or Dbl, we play forcing-pass (means that partner redoubles when his RHO passes. That is a bit risky, sometimes you have to bid 2M with a 4 card, or quickly pass not to give away your doubts, but it works fine. Haven't had any problems with it, and works best after a weak-NT (because we opps double a lot faster) B)

If you want, I can give you guys a detailed description of how we handle any case of intervention after 1NT (it's a few pages).
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