[ksk2005]

With most clubs around the world closed due to Coronavirus BBO attendees increased incredibly. Turkish Bridge Federation is going to have a huge championship but there are few started complaing about cheaters before even the event starts. How can we make people stop accusing others with cheating on the fly? What do you suggest? Let’s all be nice and assume everyone is honest. If we are 100% sure, just blacklist that person and say nothing instead accusing. Thank you.

[DozyDom]

So we blacklist them when they cheat, but we can't accuse them of cheating. Great strat, hope it works out for you.

[pescetom]

I don't think it makes sense to pay attention to undocumented accusation of cheating or to fears of cheating.
It is even easier to cheat on BBO than it is at the club, but that does not necessarily mean that anyone will cheat on BBO who does not cheat at the club.
My long experience in other sports suggests that 6-10% of people will cheat and that this percentage is fairly constant independent of competitive level or risk of discovery, YMMV.

[Vampyr]

 pescetom, on 2020-April-07, 15:48, said:

I don't think it makes sense to pay attention to undocumented accusation of cheating or to fears of cheating.
It is even easier to cheat on BBO than it is at the club, but that does not necessarily mean that anyone will cheat on BBO who does not cheat at the club.
My long experience in other sports suggests that 6-10% of people will cheat and that this percentage is fairly constant independent of competitive level or risk of discovery, YMMV.

I think that people who don’t cheat at the club will necessarily not cheat online. And don’t forget that there are people who don’t have easy access to a club, and play mainly online.

I think that cheating is rampant in online bridge. I don’t know why, since nothing at all is at stake, but some people just have a propensity to cheat, and it is just too easy; you can, for instance be on the phone with your partner.

[pilowsky]

I have never cheated. It is completely pointless. You are not playing for money; there's nothing to gain. Anybody who cheats is simply wasting their time, and the joke is on them. Why would you bother even worrying about it?

[Vampyr]

 pilowsky, on 2020-April-07, 19:55, said:

I have never cheated. It is completely pointless. You are not playing for money; there's nothing to gain. Anybody who cheats is simply wasting their time, and the joke is on them. Why would you bother even worrying about it?

The main trouble is that cheaters do distorted things, so they make the game less enjoyable for their opponents. Also everyone wants to do well, which is a lot harder when the deck is stacked against you.

I think there is still a lot of cheating in real-world bridge. The cheaters who have been caught are the ones who are bad at cheating, or could not resist the temptation to cheat on every hand.

[johnu]

 pilowsky, on 2020-April-07, 19:55, said:

I have never cheated. It is completely pointless. You are not playing for money; there's nothing to gain. Anybody who cheats is simply wasting their time, and the joke is on them. Why would you bother even worrying about it?

I would say their joke is on you. Maybe they are wasting their time, but if they cheat against you, they are wasting your time for those hands, and by extension, wasting your time (and your money in paid tournaments) for the entire tournament.

[pilowsky]

 johnu, on 2020-April-08, 03:27, said:

I would say their joke is on you. Maybe they are wasting their time, but if they cheat against you, they are wasting your time for those hands, and by extension, wasting your time (and your money in paid tournaments) for the entire tournament.

You are wrong. I don't know why you play in tournaments if your sole objective is to 'win'. Good luck to you. Masterpoints and trophies are a joke. BBO is basically a Casino. I hone my bridge skills playing against robots where no-one can cheat. I play with people to have fun and to meet people. People can cheat if they are so stupid that they think that has intrinsic value: it does not. You are not saving lives. Cheating always comes out in the end and I really don't care. That's why I no longer pay usurious amounts of money to have silly bush lawyers pick me up on ridiculous points of (so-called) law or for other cretins to call me stupid (a topic on which I am now an expert). One director once told me at a Christmas party session that all South African Jewish women were arrogant: my mother was a South African Jewish woman. When I said that was inappropriate the manager of the club (without missing a beat) said calm down Paul "it's Christmas". So, no, I don't give a s***t (I didn't put the ******ing asterisks there :-) ) about cheating. Or masterpoints. If it's that important to them let them do it. Leo LaSota is my hero.

[johnu]

 pilowsky, on 2020-April-08, 15:56, said:

You are wrong. I don't know why you play in tournaments if your sole objective is to 'win'.

If I am going to block out a period of my time to play in a bridge tournament, I expect that it will be a fair tournament. If I don't think it will be a fair tournament, I wouldn't play. I consider playing in a crooked game a waste of my time.

Would you happily play in a tournament where the players blatantly use UI on almost hand, coffeehouse like it was the finals of the World Series of Poker, and deliberately give you MI about their bids and plays? Then you probably would be also be perfectly ok if your opponents just out and out cheat you. Have fun

[pilowsky]

 johnu, on 2020-April-08, 16:08, said:

If I am going to block out a period of my time to play in a bridge tournament, I expect that it will be a fair tournament. If I don't think it will be a fair tournament, I wouldn't play. I consider playing in a crooked game a waste of my time.

Would you happily play in a tournament where the players blatantly use UI on almost hand, coffeehouse like it was the finals of the World Series of Poker, and deliberately give you MI about their bids and plays? Then you probably would be also be perfectly ok if your opponents just out and out cheat you. Have fun

That is one of the reasons that I prefer to play in friendly tournaments (for friendship) or in robot tournaments (for sport). Cheating is nearly impossible against robots. Bridge works much better when the idiots can't interfere and the game is pure.

[AL78]

 pilowsky, on 2020-April-08, 15:56, said:

You are wrong. I don't know why you play in tournaments if your sole objective is to 'win'.

My objective in a tournament or congress is to do well (I am not good enough to think I can have a go at winning). If it is a competition, my objective is to do the best I can (I owe that to my partner if not to myself) and finish as well as I can, that is the point, it is a competition, I am going to be competitive. The social side as a good addition. If you are not interested in competition and trying to win, you might as well not bother with bridge clubs, and just meet up with three friends in someones house and play casually all evening, with no score recording.

[pilowsky]

If that's true and you really want a fair competition. Play in robot tournaments where cheating is impossible. Bridge is a video sport. In the future competitors will sit in cubicles not at tables and the nonsense we have seen in the past will disappear. There will be no need for "laws and rulings" in the way that we have understood it in the past. The world has changed forever.

[Vampyr]

 pilowsky, on 2020-April-08, 18:56, said:

If that's true and you really want a fair competition. Play in robot tournaments where cheating is impossible.

Well, playing with and against robots is not everyone’s cup of tea. Once we get back to live bridge we will not experience much cheating. Just UI from, usually, people whose partners would not know that there was any I at all.

Quote

Bridge is a video sport. In the future competitors will sit in cubicles not at tables and the nonsense we have seen in the past will disappear. There will be no need for "laws and rulings" in the way that we have understood it in the past. The world has changed forever.

O boy, what fun. Sounds equivalent to wanking off to porn in a little cubicle at a sperm bank. Yes, you kind of get the experience, but all the fun, the social aspect, chatting etc is absent.

If it ever came to that, I would definitely dispense with the bridge club and play socially or in privately-held matches.

[pilowsky]

You make a very good point. A lot of the bidding systems - and the facial expressions that accompany them - that I see in the club look and sound like the vertical expression of a horizontal desire .