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Uncommon Bidding sequence Responder's first bid

#1 User is offline   relpar 

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Posted 2020-October-01, 15:28

What is the most common meaning of responder's bid in a sequence of 1 - Pass - 3?
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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2020-October-01, 15:39

View Postrelpar, on 2020-October-01, 15:28, said:

What is the most common meaning of responder's bid in a sequence of 1 - Pass - 3?


There are several possible meanings, and people play various of them by agreement.

Long weak hearts - QJ109xxx and more or less out - this is known as a weak jump shift
5 decent hearts, 4 decent spades, what range is open to agreement - this is known as a fit jump
16+ with at least 5 good hearts, specifics vary - this is known as a strong jump shift (a Soloway jump shift is a specific variant)
Some sort of spade raise saying nothing about hearts
GF either the big heart hand or a GF fit jump (which is what I play)
Singleton or void in hearts, values for a raise to 3 - this is known as a mini splinter.
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#3 User is online   sfi 

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Posted 2020-October-01, 15:42

View Postrelpar, on 2020-October-01, 15:28, said:

What is the most common meaning of responder's bid in a sequence of 1 - Pass - 3?

I'm not sure there is a standard. Options include:
  • Strong, slam interest with a good suit. This was the norm for some decades, probably until the 90's.
  • Weak, 0-5 points with a long suit. This had some traction after people decided the strong meaning was too rare and took up too much space.
  • Invitational, 6+ without a spade fit. This is probably the expert choice at the moment if it's used as a natural bid. Weak preempts partner too much, and this caters for a problem hand in 2/1.
  • 3-card limit raise. Fits well with Bergen raises and removes this hand from the 1NT response.
  • Other raise, showing a splinter of some sort. A common way to add multiple ranges of splinters to a system.


If natural, IMO invitational > strong > weak, which probably matches frequency of use.
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#4 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2020-October-01, 15:55

There is none.

Traditional is GF, almost slam invitational. Nobody plays that without restriction any more. Those that do play Strong Jump Shifts, usually do it Soloway's style: Either one-suited, or two suited with support for opener, or very strong balanced. Notice that responder's second call can easily pinpoint which one of those three it is.

More common in North America is Weak Jump Shifts, where it would show a hand like x KJTxxx Jxx 9xx. It's popular because it comes up a lot, and because when opener has a minimum and it is the opponents' hand, it is an effective preempt. However, unless you are very careful to clarify which hands are WJS, you frequently only end up preempting opener (1-p-3-p. I have an 18 count or so, and Kx. Do I pass, because you have QJxxxx and no entry, or do I bid 3NT because you're AJxxxx or QJxxxx and an outside king?

Many people play fit-showing jump shifts of some sort. Bergen Raises are common (but the meaning of 1-3 is not universal even there; most play it as "unspecified splinter" - that is, unspecified shortness); limit splinters are common (so this bid would be 4=1=4=4, about 8-10 HCP); some play Natural-fit (a common treatment after interference. Much less common after pass, but I play this in one of my main partnerships), something like 4=5=1=3, again about 8-10 (or really big).

One I don't see, but I have definitely heard experts play, is a "mixed raise" - 7-9, or 8-10, with 4 card support and not pancake flat. Not sure what the other jump shifts mean when playing this.

Some pairs play some combination of these for different jump shifts, a common scheme around here is:
  • 1m-2M: weak. Usually around KJxxxx and no more than a queen outside.
  • 1-2, or 1-3: Limit raise (in conjunction with 1m-2m GF raise and 1m-3m 6-9 raise.
  • 1M-3m: Bergen (4-card support, one Limit strength, one constructive strength).
  • 1-2 or 1-3: something, or nothing, or ...?


Find what works in your system, and learn what the responses by opener mean after it, and it will come up infrequently and serve you well when it does.

I wouldn't spring this auction on a pickup partner, or any partner I hadn't discussed this with. However, if I've had enough time to discuss to fill out a convention card, I'll have had time enough to discuss it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of players who only know one way to play, and assume everyone else plays that way too. Sometimes partner guesses right, sometimes they don't.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
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#5 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2020-October-01, 18:56

I think invitational and natural, or some sort of raise (mixed/LR/some range of spl) are by far most common.

These days with 2/1 being common there's just little justification to use it as strong anymore. It just consumes so much space, far easier to bid 2H and take it from there.

Weak was never that popular, also it's a bit silly IMO to do weak jump in hearts, as very often you'll be able to bid 1S-1nt-2m-2H and buy it a level lower. Your side has the boss suits, make the opps outbid you, don't self-push if you don't have to.
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#6 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2020-October-01, 20:27

Among mere mortals, the most common meanings are: strong, undefined, or weak.
Among stronger pairs with more elaborate agreements: strong, invitational, mini-splinter or fitbid.

A raise unrelated to hearts is very rare in my impression.
Can't have a baby if you do it contraclockwise! --- Jlall
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#7 User is online   sfi 

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Posted 2020-October-02, 01:52

View Posthelene_t, on 2020-October-01, 20:27, said:

A raise unrelated to hearts is very rare in my impression.

It's interesting that this is your experience. In Australia it's extremely common to play it as a 3-card limit raise and I would have thought there was more similarity between New Zealand and Australia. I'm not suggesting it's a great idea (it's not), so maybe the enforced Covid isolation has at least one good consequence.
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