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what to bid: heart or club

#1 User is offline   cencio 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 06:17


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#2 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 06:21

Most Brits will open 1, a lot of Americans open 1.

You should get to 6 either way
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#3 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 06:50

The classic 5-6 hand. I'd open 1, since you are strong enough to take out their potential 4 anyway. With a weaker hand I'd open 1.
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#4 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 08:05

Always open with longer + better suit AKJTxx vs. AQJxx so 1 is opening bid
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#5 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 08:56

View PostLBengtsson, on 2021-January-06, 08:05, said:

Always open with longer + better suit AKJTxx vs. AQJxx so 1 is opening bid


Provided you are strong enough to reverse.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 09:20

View PostVampyr, on 2021-January-06, 08:56, said:

Provided you are strong enough to reverse.


It's also not quite that simple, which are you happier with ?

1-4-P-P-
1-4-P-P-

I'd suggest you're much better placed in the second with an easy 5 bid (even though I'd open 1.
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#7 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 13:36

Cencio's quiz
+++++++++++++
The best contract (6N by East) is hard to reach but I rank

1. 1 = NAT intending to reverse into (twice)
2. 1 = NAT Canapé
3. 2 = STR

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#8 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 13:37

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-January-06, 09:20, said:

It's also not quite that simple, which are you happier with ?

1-4-P-P-
1-4-P-P-

I'd suggest you're much better placed in the second with an easy 5 bid (even though I'd open 1.


Are you better placed? I think 4nt shows 5-6 with a red suit, problem with 1h ... 5c is partner tends to pull back to hearts with 2-2 in your suits.
I don't think a lot of Americans open 1H, only disciples of Steve Robinson.

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#9 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 13:40

View PostStephen Tu, on 2021-January-06, 13:37, said:

Are you better placed? I think 4nt shows 5-6 with a red suit, problem with 1h ... 5c is partner tends to pull back to hearts with 2-2 in your suits.
I don't think a lot of Americans open 1H, only disciples of Steve Robinson.


Yes these were my thoughts as well.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#10 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 13:41

View PostStephen Tu, on 2021-January-06, 13:37, said:

Are you better placed? I think 4nt shows 5-6 with a red suit, problem with 1h ... 5c is partner tends to pull back to hearts with 2-2 in your suits.
I don't think a lot of Americans open 1H, only disciples of Steve Robinson.


4N for me could be 7-4 or some 6-4s, 1 then 5 could well be 5-5 so partner tends to put you back into hearts with 2-2 only if the hearts are better so may well have the K unless you've already got it horribly wrong and he has xx twice.
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#11 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 13:51

Among the many downsides of the 1 opening is staking the low ground in a post-mortem discussion.
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#12 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 14:20

1.

I think the 1 openers will struggle to get partner to actually realize we're 5-6 after a reverse.
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#13 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 16:02

View PostTylerE, on 2021-January-06, 14:20, said:

I think the 1 openers will struggle to get partner to actually realize we're 5-6 after a reverse.


It's not even always important. There may be 6 or you may have 4-card .
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#14 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 16:21

View PostTylerE, on 2021-January-06, 14:20, said:

1.

I think the 1 openers will struggle to get partner to actually realize we're 5-6 after a reverse.


It's not that hard. You reverse, then bid hearts a 2nd time on your third turn.
Opening 1H, you get the fifth heart across immediately, but you'll have a hell of a time showing the sixth club, and often can't distinguish it from 6-5/6-6 shapes.

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#15 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 16:36

View PostStephen Tu, on 2021-January-06, 16:21, said:

It's not that hard. You reverse, then bid hearts a 2nd time on your third turn.


Assuming, of course, your opponents who hold 9+ politely stay quiet the entire time. That doesn't happen against opponents with a pulse.
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#16 User is offline   morecharac 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 16:43

View Postcencio, on 2021-January-06, 06:17, said:



We play Standard American with a few gadgets.

1 - I can indicate strength by a strong jump shift later. Avoiding the more descriptive opener because opponents might make the worst possible bid for us is a way to miss some great contracts.
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#17 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 17:09

View PostTylerE, on 2021-January-06, 16:36, said:

Assuming, of course, your opponents who hold 9+ politely stay quiet the entire time. That doesn't happen against opponents with a pulse.


If the opps bid a lot of spades opening 1H will likewise bury the clubs and if you bid 5c as mentioned earlier partner won't get the suit lengths right. (maybe 1h follow by 4nt should show a canape opener?). Playing in the wrong suit can be costly if you lose control after spade taps.
If open 1c, and it's 4s by the time it's back to you, 4nt should show some sort of 5-6 IMO. And maybe if you opened 1c and they overcall spades partner is able to show some heart length himself with a neg double and it doesn't matter.
If they only get to 3S by your 2nd turn, you have an easy 4H bid and partner won't get the suit lengths wrong.

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#18 User is offline   TylerE 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 18:08

The difference is, if we have a heart fit *I don't care* if the clubs get buried. The opposite is much worse, especially at matchpoints.
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#19 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-January-06, 18:34

I definitely do care if the clubs get buried, since they'll be the most important factor in deciding how high to compete / bid. Clearcut 1 for me.
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#20 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-January-07, 12:00

Frankly, it could be easier if they bid spades. The auction I dread (that could very easily happen here) is 1-1; 2-3NT. Now show your 6-5 without either getting passed in 4 with 6 on or getting too high when partner's non-minimum is a minimum, more misfit, non-minimum.
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