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Suggestion for Handwiever/NetBridgeVu/BridgeVu

#1 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-04, 03:50

This is a mail which I have sent BBO Support intended for the SW responsible at BBO.

I publish it here to for you to comment.... The mail:



Hi,

I have some proposals for Handviewer, NetBridgeVu and BridgeVu.

BACKGROUND.

These are very old and had not been updated for many years by BBO, 9-11 years.But they are still working (with some restrictions) also with Windows 10 and is the only alternative for users that don’t have the possibility to use HandViewer, which requires that the LIN files must be packed in an XML bundle and stored on a server for access it.

PROPOSAL

As the update is frozen, which makes impossible to fix issues and add new functionality.I have three alternative proposals to improve the situation:

1. BBO start up to support update of these programs

2. BBO release the source code with an Open-Source license, which make possible for programmers to update the code for new requirements and add new functionality. Maybe this also will also give input for further improvement of Handviewer

3. BBO design a stand-alone version of HandViewer. Probably the best solution. Then BridgeVu and NetBridgeVu can be buried forever.

With hope for an answer and some actions from BBO in this matter.

Best Regards
Bjorn Hjalmarsson
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#2 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-February-04, 04:21

Releasing the source code sounds reasonable and practical to me.

If BBO are going to do any work in this area then I would rather it was on forging new standards and interoperability with other platforms, not on legacy tools.
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#3 User is online   nige1 

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Posted 2021-February-04, 06:03

View PostGunnar60, on 2021-February-04, 03:50, said:

PROPOSAL
As the update is frozen, which makes impossible to fix issues and add new functionality.I have three alternative proposals to improve the situation:

1. BBO start up to support update of these programs

2. BBO release the source code with an Open-Source license, which make possible for programmers to update the code for new requirements and add new functionality. Maybe this also will also give input for further improvement of Handviewer

3. BBO design a stand-alone version of HandViewer. Probably the best solution. Then BridgeVu and NetBridgeVu can be buried forever.

With hope for an answer and some actions from BBO in this matter.

BridgeSolver is also excellent.


I don't like the LIN format but the handviewer format is concise, simple, intuitive, functional, and hard to improve


William Shakespeare in"The Life and Death of King John" said:

To gild refined gold, to paint the lily, to throw a perfume on the violet, to smooth the ice, or add another hue unto the rainbow, or with taper-light to seek the beauteous eye of heaven to garnish, is wasteful and ridiculous excess.

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#4 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-04, 08:03

BBO seems to have forgotten that the BridgeVu/NetBridgeVu is still necessary for some Users. I understand the policy to not update with only BBO use in mind as it has been replaced by HandViewer.
For instance we have this issue with the slow animation of cardplay, which probably can be solved by updating the programs.

I am maybe naive to think that will release the source code, there are maybe commercial or ownership issues connected to a release that I am not aware of.

I have no doubt that someone or several will take on the task to update the programs.

Another thing I didn't mentioned was that a description of the LIN format is needed. Now you have to reverse engineer the functionalty of the parameters.

Hopefully BBO will take some action...

BR/Bjorn

View Postpescetom, on 2021-February-04, 04:21, said:

Releasing the source code sounds reasonable and practical to me.

If BBO are going to do any work in this area then I would rather it was on forging new standards and interoperability with other platforms, not on legacy tools.

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#5 User is online   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-February-04, 09:30

Here's a question: who is it necessary for? What do they do with it? What does BBO get out of it?

Commercial entities have this issue all the time - they decide something is niche enough now that it's not worth the time to maintain that they get in return, so they stop working on it. What do the people do? Well, sometimes they create an open source clone. Sometimes it might not be enough money for the company, but one person can make a living off of it, and either buys and maintains it, or builds their own equivalent or fork. Often, it just dies off.

I think what's most likely here would be "here's the format you have to support, feel free to build something. We'll help you if you run into something that the spec doesn't clearly define, or that doesn't actually work the way the spec says it does."

Either that or someone for whom it's "necessary" hops up with a good fraction of the cash required to get what they want. I've seen that before, too.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
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#6 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-04, 17:31

BridgeSolver is interesting. But it has not so much functionality, but is nice. It's an online program where you can select a file locally which it's repacked to HTML. One of my suggestions was to implement a HandViewer stand alone version, an alternative could be to implement local file support in Handviewer? Then no stand alone version is needed. Could this be a big deal? Probably, as I am ignorant about HTML programming?

Barmar What's your opinion?


View Postnige1, on 2021-February-04, 06:03, said:

BridgeSolver is also excellent.


I don't like the LIN format but the handviewer format is concise, simple, intuitive, functional, and hard to improve

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#7 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-05, 12:17

I add a fourth alternative which probably is the easiest one (?).

4. Add the functionality to load a local LIN file to Handviewer as it can be done in Bridgemaster. Then Handviewer also can be used without access to a server.

BR/Bjorn
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#8 User is offline   0 carbon 

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Posted 2021-February-05, 16:51

There's always http://bridgecaptain.com/ for analysis of a hand or tourney or a whole raft of tourneys.
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#9 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-February-05, 16:52

View PostGunnar60, on 2021-February-04, 17:31, said:

BridgeSolver is interesting. But it has not so much functionality, but is nice. It's an online program where you can select a file locally which it's repacked to HTML. One of my suggestions was to implement a HandViewer stand alone version, an alternative could be to implement local file support in Handviewer? Then no stand alone version is needed. Could this be a big deal? Probably, as I am ignorant about HTML programming?


Bridgesolver is intentionally simple. I asked the author to add some new features and he refused because it might be less immediate, I understand his reasoning. It is not just a program (online or standalone) where you can select a local file (of hands) to analyse and play, you can also use it as a Chrome browser extension to capture a hand diagram from BBO and other platforms and then analyse/play it or save it to a local file.

I suggest you should reflect on what we really need and what a platform like BBO should be doing these days. Formats like .pbn have already made .lin obsolete and native XML formats such as Usebio seem the way to go (although I agree with nige1 that the handviewer format is more baby than bathwater). The real challenge as I see it is interoperability between platforms and tools, not fixing a proprietary legacy.

I fully agree that they could release the source code if that really interests anyone in 2021.
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#10 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-07, 07:50

Not so much as a word from BBO about this issue, a bit dissapointing to say the least...

Another idea that maybe is not feasible?
Is it possible to "fool" Handviewer to read a file from your disk by using your computerts IP address or if you have a NAS use that address?

From the Hanfviewer description:

Loading an external .lin file through a parameter:

The Handviewer program can be used to display a simple .lin file (for example, the type of file you get when you click the Save button in the Movie window in Bridge Base Online). In order to achieve this effect, it is necessary to create an XML file that acts as a "wrapper" for the .lin file. For example:

<lin>
md|1S2389JHTD3JC237KA,S7TH4QKD678TC4569,S456KAH25D25KACJQ,|rh||ah|Board 7|sv|b|mb|p|mb|p|mb|1S|mb|2H|mb|3S|mb|p|mb|4D|mb|p|mb|4S|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pg||pc|SQ|pc|S2|pc|S7|pc|SA|pg||pc|SK|pc|H3|pc|S8|pc|ST|pg||pc|CQ|pc|C8|pc|C2|pc|C4|pg||pc|CJ|pc|CT|pc|C3|pc|C5|pg||mc|13|
</lin>

Save this file on your server with the file extension of xml (for example, you could name the file hand1.xml) and then invoke the Handviewer using the linurl parameter with a value of the appropriate URL.

For example://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?linurl=http://www.mywebsite.com/hands/hand1.xml

If the linurl parameter is present all other parameters will be ignored.

Replace the linurl parameter with a link to my computers disk or my NAS, feasible?

Pack it first in an XML file as described above.

/Bjorn
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#11 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-07, 08:02

Why did Fred Gitelman created a property format when he could have used the PBN format and extend it with what was missing. He could then had applied for an update of the PBN standard. Maybe he tried and didn't got any response? As far I know all program uses PBN. All have been much easier if he had done so. Probably I have missed something substansial about the reason?
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#12 User is offline   0 carbon 

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Posted 2021-February-07, 16:15

View Post0 carbon, on 2021-February-05, 16:51, said:

There's always http://bridgecaptain.com/ for analysis of a hand or tourney or a whole raft of tourneys.

Ooops, should be http://bridgecaptain...downloadDD.html
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#13 User is online   mycroft 

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Posted 2021-February-07, 22:16

PBN is universal *now*. About 5 years after it was realized that the multiple, undocumented, internal formats used by multiple programs that recorded bridge deals needed to be standardised so that one could talk to another.
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
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#14 User is offline   Gerardo 

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Posted 2021-February-07, 22:48

The LIN format predates BBO, Fred used it for Vugraphs and hand presentations before that, perhaps mid 90s, maybe before that.

Bridge Base (NOT Online) was founded in 1990.

#15 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-08, 07:03

I came to that conclusion also after a while and he didn't want to convert.Understandable. Should possible to convert NetBrideVu eller BridgeVu if BBO release the source code.


View PostGerardo, on 2021-February-07, 22:48, said:

The LIN format predates BBO, Fred used it for Vugraphs and hand presentations before that, perhaps mid 90s, maybe before that.

Bridge Base (NOT Online) was founded in 1990.

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#16 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-08, 16:16

My conclusions is that as BBO is not interested to support requirement for external use (understandable) a new "BridgeVu" is needed that is based on the PBN format (LIN is BBO format dot!) and open for new functionality and other changes. Conversion program exist, so it will not be necessary to support LIN.

It could be shareware or free. If BBO can release the source code it could be a good help for such design.
Who will take on such task, I have no idea, not me, I don't have the competence.

/Bjorn
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#17 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-09, 02:32

Maybe update of Bridge Solver could be a way forward, remains to convince the programmer to do it... :-)
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#18 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-February-09, 02:42

View PostGunnar60, on 2021-February-09, 02:32, said:

Maybe update of Bridge Solver could be a way forward, remains to convince the programmer to do it... :-)

He's been working hard to support new platforms recently.
What exactly would you like him to do?
If it clutters the user interface or involves reading .lin files I doubt he would be interested.
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#19 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-10, 19:01

But it already supports LIN, so I don't see a problem with that,else more or less the same functionality as in NetBridgevU/Handviewer, such as be able to present a session with result at the other table, total result, show a scoresheet etc.

View Postpescetom, on 2021-February-09, 02:42, said:

He's been working hard to support new platforms recently.
What exactly would you like him to do?
If it clutters the user interface or involves reading .lin files I doubt he would be interested.

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#20 User is offline   Gunnar60 

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Posted 2021-February-13, 18:55

I guess this thread seems to die. I have at least expected some answer from BBO. Sending me to this meeting and then nothing!!??
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