BBO Discussion Forums: Takeout double - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Takeout double Or not?

Poll: Double trouble (13 member(s) have cast votes)

With this hand I would:

  1. Pass (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Double (3 votes [23.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

  3. 2 Spades (7 votes [53.85%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 53.85%

  4. 2NT (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Something else (3 votes [23.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,208
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, Learning, History, Politics

Posted 2021-May-13, 05:30


This hand came up in Speedball Tourney.
When the dust settled, I decided to cop most of the blame,
My question is: What's your call as North in this auction?

non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
1

#2 User is offline   nullve 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,778
  • Joined: 2014-April-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway
  • Interests:partscores

Posted 2021-May-13, 05:52

3: 6(+)S4-D4-C, a bit too strong for a 2 overcall
1

#3 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 147
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2021-May-13, 05:59

View Postnullve, on 2021-May-13, 05:52, said:

3: 6(+)S4-D4-C, a bit too strong for a 2 overcall

X followed by 3 regardless of whether this is a weak 2 or an Ekren style 2
Too strong for 2
A direct 3 would show a stronger suit for me
1

#4 User is offline   eagles123 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,739
  • Joined: 2011-June-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK Near London
  • Interests:Crystal Palace

Posted 2021-May-13, 06:14

I would put the stop card out and then bid 2S, thus signalling a max 2S bid.
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
3

#5 User is offline   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 147
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 2021-May-13, 06:31

View Posteagles123, on 2021-May-13, 06:14, said:

I would put the stop card out and then bid 2S, thus signalling a max 2S bid.

And get penalised?
0

#6 User is offline   LBengtsson 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 382
  • Joined: 2017-August-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-May-13, 06:48

3 also like nullve. yes suit could be stronger but is headed by AK plus two more aces. hand is over 18 on kaplan/rubens and as the opponents have preempted I will assume partner will have 7-8 high card points. X followed by 3 is also an option, depending on partnership agreements but I would take this bid as this sort of hand also. one where a immediate 2 overcall shows a weaker hand than this. game will probably depend on no more than a finesse against the stronger ops hand. give your partner xx xxxx kxxx KJx and as long as trumps are 3-2 game is more than 50/50
0

#7 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,890
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2021-May-13, 06:57


Pilowski 'This hand came up in Speedball Tourney.
When the dust settled, I decided to cop most of the blame,
My question is: What's your call as North in this auction?'
++++++++++++++++++++
I rate
1. Double = T/O. If partner passes Q should prove useful.
2, 3 = NAT Good hand good suit. Nullve is usually right but I'd like better intermediates.
3. 2 = NAT Undebid.

1

#8 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,114
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2021-May-13, 07:14

View Postnige1, on 2021-May-13, 06:57, said:


Pilowski 'This hand came up in Speedball Tourney.
When the dust settled, I decided to cop most of the blame,
My question is: What's your call as North in this auction?'
++++++++++++++++++++
I rate
1. Double = T/O. If partner passes Q should prove useful.
2, 3 = NAT Good hand good suit. Nullve is usually right but I'd like better intermediates.
3. 2 = NAT Undebid.



2

Not tempted by anything else

The queen of Hearts isn't carrying any weight.
The spade suit is to weak to consider a jump bid.
Alderaan delenda est
5

#9 User is offline   Douglas43 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 305
  • Joined: 2020-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Isle of Man
  • Interests:Walking, boring my wife with bridge stories

Posted 2021-May-13, 09:22

View Postnige1, on 2021-May-13, 06:57, said:


Pilowski 'This hand came up in Speedball Tourney.
When the dust settled, I decided to cop most of the blame,
My question is: What's your call as North in this auction?'
++++++++++++++++++++
I rate
1. Double = T/O. If partner passes Q should prove useful.
2, 3 = NAT Good hand good suit. Nullve is usually right but I'd like better intermediates.
3. 2 = NAT Undebid.



I was a Spade bidder, but double is interesting. Assuming no penalty pass, what would be your planned follow-up Nige1? Would you bid Spades over a Lebensohl response or go with partner's choice of suit?
0

#10 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,890
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2021-May-13, 10:09

View PostDouglas43, on 2021-May-13, 09:22, said:

I was a Spade bidder, but double is interesting. Assuming no penalty pass, what would be your planned follow-up Nige1? Would you bid Spades over a Lebensohl response or go with partner's choice of suit?
If partner bids 2N (Lebensohl) I guess would bid 3, (assuming that to be constructive but N/F). I hope this suggests tolerance for alternative strains. Unfortunately Partner will probably judge this to be stronger than Nullve's direct 3 overcall. Oh Well. Anything could be right. Pilowsky posed a hard and interesting problem :)
1

#11 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,403
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2021-May-13, 11:05

For me it's a clear 3: 6-card is no problem, 7432 is, but the two side aces make up for that.
0

#12 User is offline   TylerE 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,616
  • Joined: 2006-January-30

Posted 2021-May-13, 12:29

I'll content myself with 2.

I like the hand, but not THAT much. The spots and lack of intemediates is BAD.

If we're making anything, partner has to find a raise somehow.

Opposite a couple of nasty splits and a broke dummy I might struggle to make even 2.
1

#13 User is offline   johnu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,172
  • Joined: 2008-September-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-May-13, 12:39

2 - WTP? A good 6 loser hand for a 2 level overcall.
0

#14 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,403
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2021-May-13, 12:39

View PostTylerE, on 2021-May-13, 12:29, said:

Opposite a couple of nasty splits and a broke dummy I might struggle to make even 2.

And opposite Qxx xxxx KQJxx x you might struggle to go down in slam, as cyberyeti is bound to point out B-)
0

#15 User is offline   johnu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,172
  • Joined: 2008-September-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-May-13, 12:39

View PostTylerE, on 2021-May-13, 12:29, said:

Opposite a couple of nasty splits and a broke dummy I might struggle to make even 2.


Or maybe even struggle to make 1.
0

#16 User is offline   johnu 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,172
  • Joined: 2008-September-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-May-13, 12:44

View Postpescetom, on 2021-May-13, 12:39, said:

And opposite Qxx xxxx KQJxx x you might struggle to go down in slam, as cyberyeti is bound to point out B-)


I would immediately get another partner if they passed 2 with that hand. Apologies in advance if I boot you from the table if you do something like this :lol:
0

#17 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,861
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-May-13, 13:19

2S - a slight underbid - not because of the 6 spades but because of the prime cards. If partner can't find a raise I doubt we've missed anything.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
1

#18 User is online   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,225
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Currently in New Zealand
  • Interests:Bridge, boogie boarding, hiking

Posted 2021-May-13, 15:07

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-May-13, 13:19, said:

2S - a slight underbid - not because of the 6 spades but because of the prime cards. If partner can't find a raise I doubt we've missed anything.

2, for this reason.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
0

#19 User is offline   eagles123 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,739
  • Joined: 2011-June-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK Near London
  • Interests:Crystal Palace

Posted 2021-May-13, 15:59

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-May-13, 06:31, said:

And get penalised?



;)
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
0

#20 User is offline   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,208
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, Learning, History, Politics

Posted 2021-May-13, 17:27


Here's the entire hand and auction. Matchpoints btw.
Earlier that day, my partner sent me a message saying a friend had 'dropped' for tea, so Lebensohl was on my mind.
I thought that the double meant she had a strong hand with no decent 5-card suit to overcall with.
One of the lines that I took away from Lawrence on Takeout Doubles was "a five-card suit is gold".
I know there were 300+ more pages to the book and even stuff not covered, but with that in mind, I assumed my partner lacked a 5-card suit and had lots of points.
The 3 bid surprised me, and I assumed North had a strong hand with four chunky spades - so I left it.

Double-dummy suggests 3NT is optimal, but the top 6 pairs were in 4+1.

The bidding on the 4 tables reflects the results of the poll:
On five tables, West opened 2. One person overcalled 3, Three people overcalled 2, and one person doubled (followed by 3 3 4)
West opened 1 at two tables, making it easier for NS to reach 4.
Afterwards, I decided that since EW and I were all weak, I should have taken my partner to be much stronger than I imagined.

non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

2 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users