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Bid these

#1 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-23, 11:49

Bid these, we were playing our local green point swiss teams, this was a key hand involved in winning it, how do you guys bid this one.



Our 2N range is good 19-21 and we bid 4(kickback)-4N(0/3)-5N(no K, all the keycards, interested in grand) and partner decided he couldn't be any better and just blasted 7, clubs don't split but the stiff J meant 7N was on, 7 didn't need that with hearts 3-1, in 6 at the other table.
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#2 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-May-23, 12:46

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-May-23, 11:49, said:

Bid these, we were playing our local green point swiss teams, this was a key hand involved in winning it, how do you guys bid this one.



Our 2N range is good 19-21 and we bid 4(kickback)-4N(0/3)-5N(no K, all the keycards, interested in grand) and partner decided he couldn't be any better and just blasted 7, clubs don't split but the stiff J meant 7N was on, 7 didn't need that with hearts 3-1, in 6 at the other table.


Our auction would be identical to 3 but we don't kickback in majors so RKCB would be 4NT which as it happens would work just as well here.
More our style to control-bid however, so it would probably go:
2NT 3
3 3
3NT 4
4 4NT
5 5
5 6
7 p
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#3 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-May-23, 13:32

I think, with respect, that reaching 7H ought to be pretty easy. South keycards, by whatever method he has available, and asks for kings. Playing specific kings, as I think most good players do, identifies the club king and itís trivial to bid 7H, since itís difficult to construct a hand on which itís not somewhere between cold and on a finesse. While one should not, unless desperate, bid a grand on a hook, when it is at worst on a hook and may be cold, one has to bid it.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#4 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-23, 13:45

View Postmikeh, on 2021-May-23, 13:32, said:

I think, with respect, that reaching 7H ought to be pretty easy. South keycards, by whatever method he has available, and asks for kings. Playing specific kings, as I think most good players do, identifies the club king and it’s trivial to bid 7H, since it’s difficult to construct a hand on which it’s not somewhere between cold and on a finesse. While one should not, unless desperate, bid a grand on a hook, when it is at worst on a hook and may be cold, one has to bid it.


This was the issue with our auction, I could have had QJ10xx rather than AQxxx we should have continued in that case over 5N with 6-6(this is specifically the Q and 99% the J as well as I've already denied the K)-6-6N, in the actual case 6-7 is fine. TBF we were one of only 4/30 to bid the grand, unbelievably there were more in game than a grand (just).
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#5 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-May-23, 15:17

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-May-23, 13:45, said:

This was the issue with our auction, I could have had QJ10xx rather than AQxxx we should have continued in that case over 5N with 6-6(this is specifically the Q and 99% the J as well as I've already denied the K)-6-6N, in the actual case 6-7 is fine. TBF we were one of only 4/30 to bid the grand, unbelievably there were more in game than a grand (just).

I donít understand why south would not ask for kings. Now, if not playing specific kings, I can see an issue. But otherwise, isnít south more than mildly interested in the club holding?
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#6 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-May-23, 15:30

View Postmikeh, on 2021-May-23, 15:17, said:

I donít understand why south would not ask for kings. Now, if not playing specific kings, I can see an issue. But otherwise, isnít south more than mildly interested in the club holding?


5 would have asked for the Q, 6 would have been what I did with AKxxx/AKJx asking for the Q (not sure what 5 then 6 over 5 would be), 5N said "I have no K's to show but am still interested in grand" I expected N to bid 6 if he had the K, as it was partner just blasted 7, so it is effectively asking for specific Ks.
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#7 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-May-23, 15:38

View PostCyberyeti, on 2021-May-23, 11:49, said:

Bid these, we were playing our local green point swiss teams, this was a key hand involved in winning it, how do you guys bid this one.



Our 2N range is good 19-21 and we bid 4(kickback)-4N(0/3)-5N(no K, all the keycards, interested in grand) and partner decided he couldn't be any better and just blasted 7, clubs don't split but the stiff J meant 7N was on, 7 didn't need that with hearts 3-1, in 6 at the other table.

Showing controls & showing keycards

2NT-3
3-3 ( control)
4 ( control & 2+ honours)-4 (denies control)
4NT (3 keycards w. & controls)-6 (Q & K or Q w. no Kings)
7 (alternatively 6 to show the Q and ask partner to pick the grand)
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#8 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2021-May-30, 22:49

After
2NT - 3
3 - 3 = agreeing with SI:-

3NT = declines slam try
4 = accepts slam try without a control
4 = accepts slam try with a control but no control
4 = accepts slam try with + control but no control
4 = accepts slam try, controls in all side suits and 1 or 4 key cards
4NT = accepts slam try, controls in all side suits and 0 or 3 key cards
5 = accepts slam try, controls in all side suits and 2 or 5 key cards without Q
5 = accepts slam try, controls in all side suits and 2 or 5 key cards with Q
--
(-: Zel :-)

Happy New Year everyone!
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#9 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2021-May-31, 16:28

Like Zel, we need to utilise the 3NT and 4 bids over 3, which is commonly played as a slam try in hearts.

Since 2NT is already a very narrow range, I do not think that using the first step to accept or decline the slam try is the most efficient use of that bid. We use 3NT to show a spade control.

On some other auctions in order to facilitate responder being able to safely bid Blackwood we use a bid of 4 to show controls in all side suits. The most common auction where that agreement applies is after a transfer and a super-accept. 2NT 3 4 is a superaccept with controls everywhere. That principle can be extended to this auction where 2NT 3 3 3 4 shows controls in all side suits perhaps with a range implication, either good or poor. It is hard to imagine a poor hand with controls in all suits though. Otherwise, we use the decision to stop in 4 or go beyond 4 by either partner as the trigger to show or deny extra interest.

2NT 3
3 3
4 ...

Responder now knows that opener has K and K and either A or K. Blackwood should sort out the rest.

... 4 if playing kickback
4NT ... 0 or 3

Now if the clubs are running there are thirteen on top. And if not we have 13 with a 4-2 club break and a ruff if partner has three spades and two clubs. In addition there may well be other chances.

In practice we can't find out if partner has three clubs or KJ so we are going to have to bid 7 rather than shoot for 7NT.
Wayne Burrows

I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

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