BBO Discussion Forums: Clubs - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Clubs From the Club

Poll: Bodding Problem (18 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you do?

  1. Pass (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 1 Club (9 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  3. 2 Clubs (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 3 Clubs (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 4 Clubs (1 votes [5.56%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  6. 5 Clubs (8 votes [44.44%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 44.44%

  7. 6 Clubs (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. 7 Clubs (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is online   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,344
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, Learning, History, Politics

Posted 2021-June-09, 18:06


Matchpoints. NS vulnerable.
Both pairs playing 1NT 15-17 and 2 "strong".
This hand came up yesterday in the Club. I'm North.
What would you do with the West hand?

non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
0

#2 User is online   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 249
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-June-09, 20:16

I open 10 counts as normal on a hand like that
0

#3 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,203
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-June-09, 20:35

5c. In second seat with a pass to my right I will follow the rule of 2 and 3. I don’t want to preempt partner as much as inform with my preempt.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
2

#4 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,309
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Currently in New Zealand
  • Interests:Bridge, boogie boarding, hiking

Posted 2021-June-09, 22:55

I'm afraid to ask what the rule of 2 & 3 is.

I open 1C
I have an eight card suit headed by the KQJ, I have Ax and a void.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
0

#5 User is online   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,344
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, Learning, History, Politics

Posted 2021-June-10, 02:53

All great answers - I would probably have chosen 1 or 5 if it was me, but it wasn't.
The bidding came round to me after West opened.
Feel free to vote before you peek.

Spoiler

non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
0

#6 User is online   AL78 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 896
  • Joined: 2019-October-13

Posted 2021-June-10, 03:03

What was the explanation for the 2?
0

#7 User is online   mw64ahw 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 249
  • Joined: 2021-February-13
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Bidding & play optimisation via simulation.

Posted 2021-June-10, 03:40

View Postpilowsky, on 2021-June-10, 02:53, said:

All great answers - I would probably have chosen 1 or 5 if it was me, but it wasn't.
The bidding came round to me after West opened.
Feel free to vote before you peek.

Spoiler


so 2 with a 3 rebid says I have ~8+ playing tricks (forgetting about the hcp count) and long which you would likely end up taking to 4

I have Namyats style overcalls available so 4 works for me showing strong with 7+ & 8+ playing tricks
0

#8 User is offline   LBengtsson 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 446
  • Joined: 2017-August-10
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2021-June-10, 03:48

I think both 1 or 5 can be right here white/red with one vulnerable opp already passed. though I am more on side of 5 slightly as winstonm says as hand has little defense. yes, you pre-empt partner but you are showing the hand you have exactly by rule of 2 & 3
0

#9 User is online   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,344
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, Learning, History, Politics

Posted 2021-June-10, 03:55

View PostAL78, on 2021-June-10, 03:03, said:

What was the explanation for the 2?

Exactly as shown in the Alert.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
0

#10 User is online   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,344
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, Learning, History, Politics

Posted 2021-June-10, 04:01

View Postjillybean, on 2021-June-09, 22:55, said:

I'm afraid to ask what the rule of 2 & 3 is.

I open 1C
I have an eight card suit headed by the KQJ, I have Ax and a void.


I was afraid too so I looked it up.
Based on Loser count:
Not vulnerable: Playing tricks = 13 - losers +3
Vulnerable: Playing tricks = 13 - losers +2
IF PT=10 bid 4
IF PT=9 bid 3

Here it's NV vs V so I'm not sure if there's an adjustment.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
0

#11 User is offline   shyams 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,379
  • Joined: 2009-August-02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dubai, UAE

Posted 2021-June-10, 04:26

Many countries prohibit the use of a strong 2 bid with this hand. It does not have sufficient HCPs and (if this were a serious tournament) N/S may have redress if they refer to a Director.

Edit: I meant the West hand with the long club suit.

This post has been edited by shyams: 2021-June-10, 04:27

0

#12 User is online   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,344
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, Learning, History, Politics

Posted 2021-June-10, 05:33

View Postshyams, on 2021-June-10, 04:26, said:

Many countries prohibit the use of a strong 2 bid with this hand. It does not have sufficient HCPs and (if this were a serious tournament) N/S may have redress if they refer to a Director.

Edit: I meant the West hand with the long club suit.


It's currently the subject of discussion - only (a small) part of the reason for the post.
I would be interested to hear the views of any Australian TD's.
The club is one of Australia's largest. Easily the largest during the height of the pandemic.
There were about 16 tables at this session.
I've never played in a Congress so I don't know what rates as 'serious'.

The bidding continued:

Spoiler

non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
0

#13 User is online   DavidKok 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 628
  • Joined: 2020-March-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2021-June-10, 06:02

I have no idea what's going on. Is 2 Precision? Why is North jumping?
0

#14 User is online   AL78 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 896
  • Joined: 2019-October-13

Posted 2021-June-10, 06:08

View Postpilowsky, on 2021-June-10, 03:55, said:

Exactly as shown in the Alert.


Ok, sorry, didn't realise that was an active link where you could click on the bid and get the at table explanation.

I've seen those bids at my club by the Benji Acol players who think opening 2 on an 8 playing trick hand means AKQxxxxx and no more than a king outside is fair game.
0

#15 User is online   pilowsky 

  • pilowsky
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,344
  • Joined: 2019-October-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Writing, Learning, History, Politics

Posted 2021-June-10, 06:16

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-June-10, 06:02, said:

I have no idea what's going on. Is 2 Precision? Why is North jumping?


Precision Posted Image?
Opposite I think.
They are playing SAYC.
We're playing 2/1.
The problem I faced was that my partner was going to be (and was) baffled about the distribution of HCP - to say nothing about the shape.
non est deus ex machina; även maskiner behöver lite kärlek, J'ai toujours misé sur l'étrange gentillesse des robots.
0

#16 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,203
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2021-June-10, 07:00

View Postjillybean, on 2021-June-09, 22:55, said:

I'm afraid to ask what the rule of 2 & 3 is.

I open 1C
I have an eight card suit headed by the KQJ, I have Ax and a void.

Rule of 2-3 is based on the value of the opponent’s game . Down 2 doubled at equal vulnerability or down 3 doubled at favorable are both smaller losses than the value of their hypothetical game.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter.
1

#17 User is offline   mycroft 

  • Secretary Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,990
  • Joined: 2003-July-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary, Canada

Posted 2021-June-10, 10:19

1 or 3NT ("4m preempt"). Depends on which is more likely to talk this set of opponents out of spades. Before you open 1, figure out how high you're going to walk the dog, and what auctions you're pulling your partner's penalty double.

2 in the ACBL (assuming it's strong and not Natural Intermediate) is as stated illegal in Basic or Basic+ games, and in Open or Open+ games, if you agree this is a 2 opener, you must Alert *all* your 2 openers, "could be 8 playing tricks without defence". And when they believe you and it goes 2-2-p (A or K)-4; you get to decide if partner can set this, or if you have to bid 5 and hope it only goes 500 into their 620, or if they can actually make 6 and we should just let them take 680 - or even stripe-tail ape it the hard way!

3 isn't *bad* exactly, if your agreement is, like mine with most partners, "happy to put dummy down in 3NT". Hope we don't make 6, I guess.

[edit: of course I got the vulnerability wrong - again. What's worse is that I checked it - and then "fixed" my "mistake"!]
When I go to sea, don't fear for me, Fear For The Storm -- Birdie and the Swansong (tSCoSI)
0

#18 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,499
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2021-June-10, 10:48

View Postshyams, on 2021-June-10, 04:26, said:

Many countries prohibit the use of a strong 2 bid with this hand. It does not have sufficient HCPs and (if this were a serious tournament) N/S may have redress if they refer to a Director.

Edit: I meant the West hand with the long club suit.

No particular limitations on agreements about 2 opening in Italy, except those on a Brown Sticker such as weak and no known suit. But if EW want to use it for hands like this they had better have it documented and an explanation of "strong" won't cut.
0

#19 User is offline   shyams 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,379
  • Joined: 2009-August-02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dubai, UAE

Posted 2021-June-10, 11:06

The West hand is too weak to qualify as a Strong 2 opening.

Most national bridge authorities have guidelines on what qualifies as "Strong 2".
* Mycroft wrote about the rules within the ACBL.
* The EBU rules are very similar. (Quote from EBU Blue Book) "Partnerships who agree that an artificial opening (such as 2) may be made with a hand with a lot of playing strength but limited high cards must disclose this clearly
* My cursory search of the ABF website was not helpful. However, one of their documents (link) clearly states that "The psyching of a conventional bid, which is unequivocally forcing and systematically indicative of the strongest possible opening hand (e.g., a Game Forcing 2 or a Precision 1) is strictly forbidden."

If E/W described the 2 opening as "strong" with no other caveats or clarifications, I feel that N/S have a right to claim that West psyched. I cannot see why a Director would then not rule against E/W and in favour of N/S.
0

#20 User is offline   jillybean 

  • hooked
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,309
  • Joined: 2003-November-15
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Currently in New Zealand
  • Interests:Bridge, boogie boarding, hiking

Posted 2021-June-10, 11:33

View Postpilowsky, on 2021-June-10, 02:53, said:

All great answers - I would probably have chosen 1 or 5 if it was me, but it wasn't.
The bidding came round to me after West opened.
Feel free to vote before you peek.




4 and I think I will be getting the Director to review the hand afterwards.
Searching for your own mistakes is the only way to learn this game. - Fluffy

And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. - MikeH

SLOW DOWN! This is not a speedball :)
1

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users