BBO Discussion Forums: Overcalling with 3(54)1 shape - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1

Overcalling with 3(54)1 shape

#1 User is offline   ManUtdNZ 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 8
  • Joined: 2020-July-02

Posted 2021-June-16, 15:09

Hi
I'm having trouble with this shape in certain circumstances so I'd like to ask for help.

Hand 1: AT3 AQJ84 QJ92 3
Hand 2: AT3 QJ92 AQJ84 3

My Partner and I have discussed X vs bidding 5-card suit. So, I was wondering if more experienced players could offer advice in the following 4 scenarios. In each case, you are sitting East with these hands and North opens:
Scenario 1: 1
Scenario 2: 1
Scenario 3: 2
Scenario 4: 3

I had Hand 1 in scenario 4 and X. It didn't go well.
0

#2 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 16,371
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Hamilton, New Zealand

Posted 2021-June-16, 15:23

Generally try to be specific about the major suit length, so with 5431 with shortness in opps' suit you overcall a 5-card major, but double if your 5-card suit is a minor. We can make an exception for very weak 5-card suits which you would have to bid at the 2-level, and at the 3-level you prefer to have a 6-card suit for an overcall (obviously you often have to bid a 5-card suit, but if double is a reasonable alternative, you double).

When you have a singleton in opps' suit, you generally can't double (unless you have 17+ points or so, so you can double first and bid your suit afterwards). But after a 2 opening, holding hand 2, many pairs agree that double followed by 3 doesn't show a huge hand but just shows this shape. This is known as "equal level conversion" which is not commonly played at the 1-level, but quite popular at the 2-level and higher. Something you need to discuss with partner.
Can't have a baby if you do it contraclockwise! --- Jlall
2

#3 User is offline   paulg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,751
  • Joined: 2003-April-26
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scottish Borders

Posted 2021-June-16, 15:41

Hand 1: AT3 AQJ84 QJ92 3
Scenario 1: 1

I think everyone would overcall 1. The disparity between the major suit lengths is too much for a normal takeout double and this hand is not strong enough to double followed by bidding hearts.

Scenario 2: 1

I think most experienced players would overcall 2 without being too happy about it. You'd prefer six hearts, but the overall power of the hand, quality of the heart suit and points in your long suits is compensation. If you double then you will struggle to convince partner that you have five hearts.

Scenario 3: 2

I think most experienced players would overcall 3 hoping it does not go badly. You'd prefer six hearts, but the overall power of the hand, quality of the heart suit and points in your long suits is compensation. Double is not really an option, which is why I'd bid.

Scenario 4: 3
I would bid 3 quite happily on this hand. If partner has values and five spades then we'll not miss a fit and hearts is the best chance of making game. The disparity between the major suit lengths is too much for a normal takeout double for me, but I expect some experts might double.



Hand 2: AT3 QJ92 AQJ84 3

Scenario 1: 1
Double. Bridge is about the majors and more important to find a 4-4 major fit than a diamond fit.

Scenario 2: 1
Helene has described equal level conversion (ELC) which allows you to double on this hand and remove two clubs to two diamonds without promising extra values. In the absence of this, a 2 overcall is fine.

Scenario 3: 2
I would probably double with this hand as partner will try for three no trump rather than bidding a minor game. Overcalling 3 will often be followed by three passes as it is so difficult for responder to advance with moderate values and no fit.

Scenario 4: 3
Easy double. Bridge is about the majors and more important to find a 4-4 major fit than a diamond fit.
The Beer Card

I don't work for BBO and any advice is based on my BBO experience over the decades
1

#4 User is offline   pescetom 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,398
  • Joined: 2014-February-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy

Posted 2021-June-16, 15:46

View Posthelene_t, on 2021-June-16, 15:23, said:

When you have a singleton in opps' suit, you generally can't double (unless you have 17+ points or so, so you can double first and bid your suit afterwards). But after a 2 opening, holding hand 2, many pairs agree that double followed by 3 doesn't show a huge hand but just shows this shape. This is known as "equal level conversion" which is not commonly played at the 1-level, but quite popular at the 2-level and higher. Something you need to discuss with partner.

Worth discussing, but also intuitive I think: over 2-level X has to be more flexible and a new suit cannot always be huge.
1

#5 User is offline   ManUtdNZ 

  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 8
  • Joined: 2020-July-02

Posted 2021-June-16, 16:37

Hi
A general thanks to all of you for easing my pain. I've researched the ELC mentioned and will read up on this. My mind is a lot clearer.

Appreciate the feedback.

Brian
0

#6 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,512
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2021-June-16, 18:37

View PostManUtdNZ, on 2021-June-16, 16:37, said:

Hi
A general thanks to all of you for easing my pain. I've researched the ELC mentioned and will read up on this. My mind is a lot clearer.

Appreciate the feedback.

Brian

My advice about ELC is by all means read about it but don’t play it. While it definitely has its adherents, including quite a few experts, it isn’t mainstream, for very good reasons.

It solves a problem when one has say 1=4=6=2 13 count and they open 1S ahead of you. Bidding the ‘normal’ 2D with, say x AJxx AKJxxx xx risks losing a heart fit, while doubling encourages partner to bid hearts. And one simply converts a club advance to diamonds...at the ‘equal level’.


Fine. So long as the opponents refuse to preempt your auction and your partner never holds long clubs.

Say you pick up xx Qxx x Kxxxxxx. The bidding goes (1S) x (4S) to you.

Opposite x AJxx Kxxx Axxx you want to bid 5C. Opposite x AJxx AKJxxx xx, you’d rather defend.

Since elc bidders double with both hands, partner is guessing.

How about xx AQx AKQxxx Ax

1S on your right. You feel you’re too strong to bid 2D (I’m happy to overcall very strong but even I have limits)

So you double and over the 2S raise your partner bids 3C.

Yes, you can cuebid and hope to survive but what if partner can’t bid 3N? Now you have to bid 4D over 4C. Are you happy? You shouldn’t be....isn’t 4D forcing?

The one thing you couldn’t do was to bid 3D over 3C, since you might have a 2=4=6=1 13 count.

Beware of those who write up gadgets such as elc doubles with lots of descriptions of hands where it works wonderfully. Every convention ever invented ‘solves’ some problem hand.the good ones solve more, and more difficult, problems than they create. The bad ones create more, and more difficult, problems than they solve.an intellectually honest writer describes the flaws as well as the good points about a convention. There have been hands where I wished I was playing elc, but nowhere near enough to make me want to adopt it as a method.

Personally, and your experience may differ, I want partner to be comfortable that my takeout doubles promise either some degree of support for his long suit or a very good hand with a very good suit.

If you do want to try elc, make sure partner is happy about it. Spring it on partner without discussion, and you’re going to have some spectacular disasters.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
5

#7 User is offline   Gilithin 

  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 80
  • Joined: 2014-November-13

Posted 2021-June-17, 14:44

1.1 1 (and X if it comes back in 2)
1.2 2 or P is a matter of partnership style. Both are ok. What you do on these hands has a knock-on effect to partner's action in 4th seat.
1.3 The most awkward scenario. 3 is risky but so is passing as it puts a lot of pressure on partner and the hand is not good for a X. So I would expect most to overcall.
1.4 3

2.1 Very easy X
2.2 Again 2 or P is a matter of partnership style. I would expect a few more passers here than for 1.2 as the upside to bidding is slightly lower.
2.3 Several approaches make sense here. I quite like a 2NT overcall but you will find plenty of votes for X, 3 and P.
2.4 Another easy X
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1


Fast Reply

  

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users