[jillybean]

---

MPs

You're playing xyz, 2♦ was artificial and game forcing.
What's your plan now?

[nullve]

Do you play Walsh?

If you don't, then 1♥ could be on a balanced hand so 3♣ is just the standard (but very space-consuming) way to show 5+ clubs.

If you do, then 1♥ already promises an unbalanced so 3♣ must show 6+ clubs.

[mw64ahw]

I'm feeling impatient today so
4NT asking for Aces
6NT with 1 shown, 7NT with 2

[smerriman]

nullve, on 2021-August-16, 00:31, said:

If you do, then 1♥ already promises an unbalanced so 3♣ must show 6+ clubs.

What do you bid with 3145 and no spade stopper - 2♠? I guess that's an option, though I would have interpreted 3♣ as more of a default rebid with nothing further to show.

As for the OP, I would have bid 3♦, not 2♦; one of the benefits of having 2♣ cover all of the invites is that your jump bids can be slammish. 3♦ now is not as meaningful, so I'm probably just going to blast 4NT as well (or whatever your keycard bid is).

[jillybean]

No Walsh

If you had rebid 3♦ partner will cooperate with a ♥ cue.

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2021-August-16, 00:54, said:

I'm feeling impatient today so
4NT asking for Aces
6NT with 1 shown, 7NT with 2

This deserves Jxx, AKQJ, x, J10xxx 6m prob makes but 6N is doomed on a spade lead

[LBengtsson]

4♦ next. that (to me lol!) is logic. says I like your ♣ suit and I have solid ♦ suit myself. I want a NT trump contract played from partners side of the table at Matchpoint if his ♥ suit is king high and not solid. am i wrong here with 4♦??? or could it be taken as Kickback here??? I would like to know myself.

[mw64ahw]

LBengtsson, on 2021-August-16, 02:09, said:

4♦ next. that (to me lol!) is logic. says I like your ♣ suit and I have solid ♦ suit myself. I want a NT trump contract played from partners side of the table at Matchpoint if his ♥ suit is king high and not solid. am i wrong here with 4♦??? or could it be taken as Kickback here??? I would like to know myself.

Agree with this - I really need opener to play NT if K high ♥

[mw64ahw]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-August-16, 02:03, said:

This deserves Jxx, AKQJ, x, J10xxx 6m prob makes but 6N is doomed on a spade lead

That would be my bad luck and teach me for being impatient, but I'm perhaps swayed by jillybean's previous interesting slams

[jillybean]

LBengtsson, on 2021-August-16, 02:09, said:

4♦ next. that (to me lol!) is logic. says I like your ♣ suit and I have solid ♦ suit myself. I want a NT trump contract played from partners side of the table at Matchpoint if his ♥ suit is king high and not solid. am i wrong here with 4♦??? or could it be taken as Kickback here??? I would like to know myself.

4♦ is kickback for me, but without that, how does 4♦ say you like my Clubs?

[DavidKok]

We are already in a game force. Jumps should be very narrowly defined. I feel like a broken record, but jumping on slam auctions is almost never the best course of action. I hate 4NT, and don't love 4♦ (we are too strong). Why not 3♦ followed by 4♣? 7m and 7NT are not out of the picture but are far from guaranteed on just the present auction.

I have been playing a different style for so long that I'm not sure what partner promises on the auction. Is 2=4=3=4 with weak spades still an option (and since you play weak NT, this promises 15+) or would partner have given preference to 3♦? Would 2♠ over 2♦ have been artificial (fourth suit) or a picture bid? Would 2♥ promise a 5-6 hand, or can it be a punt? If partner has, say, 1=4=3=5, obviously their diamonds are weak so I presume showing clubs takes priority over supporting diamonds?

@jillybean 3♦ would already be natural, so 4♦ promises support. If the suit would not have been bid earlier it would be a splinter, but since it has it shows strength instead.

[nullve]

smerriman, on 2021-August-16, 00:56, said:

What do you bid with 3145 and no spade stopper - 2♠? I guess that's an option, though I would have interpreted 3♣ as more of a default rebid with nothing further to show.

3415 and no spade stopper, you mean? (Opener has already shown 4 hearts.)

A situation like this (it might have been the exact same sequence 1♣-1♦(Walsh); 1♥-2♦(XYZ)) with Opener having 3415 with no stopper in the 4th suit, spades) actually came up about a year ago, and my very good partner chose to bid 2N. After the board he asked me if I thought he should have bid 3♣ since he lacked a stopper and I told him I agreed with 2N.

So I realise that

nullve, on 2021-August-16, 00:31, said:

3♣ must show 6+ clubs.

was a bit optimistic.

[pescetom]

4◇ would be Kickback for us: that's why I will bid 4♧ instead (forcing and invites control-bids that should clarify whether we can play 6N rather than 6♧).

[Winstonm]

It might be a good idea to let partner in on the secret of what suit will be trumps: 4C

[Gilithin]

pescetom, on 2021-August-16, 06:27, said:

4◇ would be Kickback for us: that's why I will bid 4♧ instead (forcing and invites control-bids that should clarify whether we can play 6N rather than 6♧).

Winstonm, on 2021-August-16, 06:31, said:

It might be a good idea to let partner in on the secret of what suit will be trumps: 4C

If we bid 4♣ partner is guaranteed to continue 4♥. Have we actually advanced any further? Presumably you want to bid 4♠ next. Let's say partner then bids 5♣ (or perhaps 4NT if that is Last Train) - what now, are you happy? Which hands do you see getting right with this approach that we are going to fail on with a simple 4♦?

[Cyberyeti]

Why didn't I start 1♣-2♦ ? The hand is likely to be a whole lot simpler if I do.

[DavidKok]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-August-16, 09:24, said:

Why didn't I start 1♣-2♦ ? The hand is likely to be a whole lot simpler if I do.

That depends entirely on the local customs and decade you were born.

[jillybean]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-August-16, 09:24, said:

Why didn't I start 1♣-2♦ ? The hand is likely to be a whole lot simpler if I do.

Check the title of the thread again. 1♣ 2♦ would be a limit raise in clubs here.

David, I too try to avoid jumps once we are in a GF auction, unless I need exclusion

[Winstonm]

Gilithin, on 2021-August-16, 09:14, said:

If we bid 4♣ partner is guaranteed to continue 4♥. Have we actually advanced any further? Presumably you want to bid 4♠ next. Let's say partner then bids 5♣ (or perhaps 4NT if that is Last Train) - what now, are you happy? Which hands do you see getting right with this approach that we are going to fail on with a simple 4♦?

I don’t care for an over-reliance on keycard bids which by their nature are unilateral - I need to find specific cards in spades and hearts and that requires input from my partner.

If partner holds QJx. Kxxx, void, AJxxxx , I would expect 5C and not 4H.

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2021-August-16, 09:58, said:

Check the title of the thread again. 1♣ 2♦ would be a limit raise in clubs here.

David, I too try to avoid jumps once we are in a GF auction, unless I need exclusion

I was simply asking a question, there is a price to be paid for all these methods, I was just checking what it meant (and whether for some reason you'd decided not to use a SJS).