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Opener rebids 2NT Improving continuations in my system

#1 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-September-18, 15:50

The auction 1-1M; 2NT has been a weak point of my system for several years now, which led to repeated frustration on my part. Motivated by the current bridgewinners thread on the same topic, I have begun looking for an improvement on what I currently play (Checkback Stayman with everything else natural).

In my search I found, among other information, an 11-year-old bridgebase forum thread, an overview of possible systems recommended by Steve Moese on the Bridgewinners thread and De Groot's article on the Wolff signoff, also recommended by Steve in the same post. All of these have been very helpful and good suggestions, but I have run into the issue that my system is sufficiently different from standard that not all the base assumptions apply. So I'm trying to build something simple that suits my needs, and based on the overview above simple transfers offer the best chance of meeting my criteria. The bidding situation is as follows:

  • On 1*-1/; 2NT-? opener has shown any 17-19 balanced hand without a 5-card major (but may have up to 5 diamonds, even in combination with only 2 clubs). Responder has shown 8+ points with at least 4 cards in the bid major, but never has exactly 4=4 in the majors. We are in a game force so I have no need for a signoff/drop-dead (in particular, opener is almost always free to reject a transfer as long as we stay below game). Opener can still have 4-card support for responder's major suit.
  • Opener's minor suit (if any) is unknown. I primarily play IMPs, so 5/5 are in the picture. In particular I would also like to have a way for responder to show shapely hands below 3NT, showing doubt with a long minor suit (and implied shortness in side suits).

Based on the above, my plan was to plan 3/// as transfers, with opener rejecting a transfer to a major suit with a 4-card suit or an implied oM fit and accepting otherwise. Focusing on the 1*-1; 2NT-? sequence for now, I would like to show the following hand types (held by responder):
  • 4 spades, 5 spades, 6(+) spades, 5=4, 5=5, 6=4 in the majors, both with and without SI (but no extra shape). Bonus: 6=5 in the majors.
  • 4 spades with 5(+) of a minor, doubt-showing for 3NT. 5 spades with 5(+) of a minor, doubt-showing for 3NT. The previous hand types but with SI instead.
I believe I can bid most of these without having to get clever using the transfer approach, below is a long list of possible sequences and their meanings. Some options are clearly sub optimal but (at least in my opinion) satisfy KISS.

Spoiler


I would love to hear your thoughts on how to improve this basis of a system. There are many unused sequences, in particular using 3 to show diamonds is clearly suboptimal as we rarely wish to show diamonds, but I would also like to keep it simple. I have tried to make the list of hands that I wish to include exhaustive (up to a point) but there is every chance I missed some.
It has also become apparent that this 3 heart transfer is little more than a checkback bid asking for 4 hearts, 3 spades or neither. There might be a case for using 3 for that instead.
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#2 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2021-September-19, 01:20

It seems like there are a lot of cases where you're separating choice-of-games from slam invites where it's not really necessary -- the slam invite just continues on over 3NT by opener. Maybe something like:

3 = 1. 5332 or 4333 2. 4+

Opener's rebids:
... 3M = 4333 with 4M
... 3OM = 2M and interest in diamonds
... 3NT = 2M and not interested in diamonds
... 4x = 4M and not 4333, cuebid for the major
... 3 = 3M

After 3M/3OM/3NT, 3NT is to play and other calls below 4M are cuebids (for the major after 3M, for diamonds after 3OM). After 3:

... 3OM = 4M and longer diamonds
... 3M = 5M (opener bids 3NT with 3334-type hands and otherwise cuebids)
... 3NT = 4333 (to play)
... 4 = shortness with 5M+4+ and slam interest
... 4 = other major shortness with 5M+4+ and slam interest
... 4M = to play, probably 5M+4 but not forward-going

3 if the original major is hearts = 5+ and 4+, or 5+ and 4, or 6+
... opener bids 3 unless holding 4-support, in which case any other call is a cue for hearts
..... after 3, 3 is natural, 3NT is COG with 5+/4+, 4 is 5+/4+ slammish, 4 is 6+ and slam-interested, 4 6+ mild try

3 if the original major is spades = 4+ and 5+
... opener bids 4x with four spades (cuebid for spades), 3 with four hearts (sets trumps), 3 with three spades (sets trumps), 3NT otherwise
...... over 3NT, 4 is 5-5 NF, 4 is 6-4 to play, 4 is 5-5 slam try, 4 is 6-4 slam try (in-between step then shows interest)

3 if the original major is hearts = 4 and 4
... opener bids 3 with four spades and 4x with four hearts, 3NT otherwise

3 if the original major is spades = 5+ and 4+, or 6+
... opener bids 3 unless holding 4-support, in which case 4x is a cue
...... after 3, 3NT is COG with 5/4+, 4 is 5+/4+ and slammish, 4 is 6+ and slam-interested, 4 mild try

3 = 4M and 5+
... opener bids 3NT if reasonable holdings in the other suits; 4 sets clubs, 4+ are cuebids with 4M support
...... 4 over 3NT from opener is slam-interested

3NT = to play, but opener can correct with 4M-support (4333 starts with 3).

4M = to play, 6+M
4m, 4 after 1 = splinter with 6+M
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#3 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-September-19, 03:25

Thank you for your suggestion, but I know for a fact that my partner will not go for this unless there is some easy way to explain why these hands naturally belong to that bid. Each rebid by responder has to show a well-defined suit or hand pattern, no multiple options. That's why I've left the 3 underutilised (only showing unbalanced hands with diamonds). So I'm afraid none of your suggestions (except for 3 if the major was spades) satisfy my version of KISS. Also, for example, your suggestion of playing 1*-1; 2NT-3*; 3NT-4 as a slam try with 4 spades and longer clubs is sensible, but I don't think the auto-splinters with 6(+) in the major will come up often. It improves on my suggestion by letting opener confirm the 4-card spade suit (compared to 4 natural), but introduces ambiguity about responder's strength. With a large strength disparity I would like the weaker, shapely hand to show and the strong hand to ask.
Also as I've said above responder is never 4=4 in the majors, so that hand type need not be shown over 1*-1; 2NT (we bid 1 with 4=4 majors).

Furthermore in several COG situations opener is allowed to bid 4 instead of 3NT, and then our slam investigation would have to begin on the 5-level. That's why I made an effort to separate the COG from the slam tries. I'll go through my notes to find out in which situations this does not apply, but I'm hesitant to combine these. On a similar note I would like to minimise the number of times opener starts making descriptive bids when responder only has game interest, so something like "just make a cue bid if intending to go to 4 instead of actually bidding it" does not satisfy my constraints.

You've flipped the accept meanings over 1*-1; 2NT-3; ? compared to my suggestion, very interesting! That's definitely something I would like to optimise. I wonder how much time I should spend on 2=2 or 1=3 in the majors - not traditional 2NT shapes, but plausible. If responder has 5=5 in the majors not being able to show the third heart below 3NT might go poorly, but maybe that's the price you pay for bidding off-shape NT.
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#4 User is offline   kreivi68 

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Posted 2021-September-19, 13:56

This is a modification of my method called Mixed Transfers (see The Bridge World 6/2019).

1m-1M; 2NT

3= 5+M, denies four cards in the other major
3= Both majors
3= 4M + clubs
3= 4M + diamonds
3NT= To play
4X= Autosplinter, 6M
4M= To play

After 1m-1M; 2NT-3:

3= no major support (3= 5M+clubs; 3= 5M+diamonds; 3NT= To play; 4X= 6M, cue; 4M= 6M, mild SI)
3M= 3-card support
3oM= 4-card major support

1m-1M; 2NT-3:

3M= support assuming 5-4
3NT= no major support (4= 5-5, SI; 4= 6-4, SI; 4oM/M= natural, to play)

1m-1M; 2NT-3:

3= club support after a 1 opening or real club opening with 4+ cards, not willing to pass 3NT
3NT= no club or major support
4= 4+ clubs, good hand
Higher= 4-card major support

1m-1M; 2NT-3:

3NT= denies diamond support (or slam interest, if the opening was 1)
4= diamond support (or good hand if 3 already showed diamond support)
4X= 4-card major support
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#5 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2021-September-19, 18:34

Former teacher liked to play the following so I'll throw it into the mix. It seems simple enough, but could do better at identifying respective lengths of two-suited hands with a major and a minor.

1m-1H, 2N
.....3C-relays to 3D
..........3D
...............P-sign off
...............3H-shows diamonds
...............3S-shows 6 hearts
...............3N-shows 5 hearts and demands a preference to hearts when fitting
...............4H-RKC in diamonds
.....3D-transfers to 3H
..........3H
...............P-sign off
...............3S-5 hearts and 4 spades
...............3N-shows 5 hearts and offers a COG
...............4H-sign off
...............4S-RKC, hearts
.....3H-transfers to 3S
.....3S-transfers to clubs
..........3N-rejects
.....3N-to play
.....4C-Gerber
.....4D-transfer to 4H, slam try
.....4H-sign off
.....4S-RKC hearts


1m-1S 2N
.....3C-relays to 3D
..........3D-
...............P-sign off
...............3H-shows diamonds
...............3S-shows 6 cards in original major
...............3N-shows 5 spades and demands a preference to 4S when fitting
...............4H-RKC in diamonds
.....3D-5+S/4+H
..........3H-better hearts than spades
...............3S-5S/4H, forcing
...............3N-5422
...............4H-5-5, weak
..........3S-equal or better spades
...............3N-5 spades, willing to play 3N opposite 3 spades
...............4S-weak
...............4N-RKC in spades
.....3H-transfers to 3S
..........3S-
...............P-sign off
...............3N-5 spades, willing to play 3N opposite 3 spades
.....3S-transfers to 4C
..........3N-rejects
.....3N-to play
.....4C-Gerber
.....4D-transfer to 4H, slam try with 5-5 in majors
..........4M-sign off
..........5C-RKC, both majors
..........5D-RKC, hearts only
.....4H-transfer to 4S, slam try
..........4S-sign off
..........4N-RKC
.....4S-sign off
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#6 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-September-20, 01:59

I play something similar to below, in a Transfer Walsh context
2NT-
--3 asks for 5m?
----3 waiting
------3 4M denies 4+
---------3 4+
-----------3NT 4M333
-----------4 5M4+
-----------4 4M4+
-----------4+ GF/SI 4M4+
------3 4M4+
---------3NT 2M(344)
---------4 3M2oM44/3M2oM35
---------4+ GF/SI 3M2oM44/3M2oM35
------3NT 44Ms
----3 52M
----3 52M
----3NT 2M3oM44 exactly
--3 5 w/o 4 may have 5/6+ (weak suit)
--3 5 w/o 4/6+ (strong suit)
--3 6+4M
--3NT 6+4M
--4 6+M4oM
--4 6+M5oM
--4M 6+M (SI strong suit)

This should enable responder to place the contract/invite a slam in most cases if I've got it right.

Given your 1M is 8+points (hcp?) does this imply 1 is less than 8+ and/or no major?
In fact re-reading your 1M denies 44M so this will free up the 3-3-3NT bid to show say 4M333 which in turn frees up 3-3-3-3-3NT. Maybe some tweaking to do.
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#7 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-September-20, 03:55

Yes, over 1 I play 'Full Dutch Doubleton'. So:
Pass - 0-6 with 4-5 clubs (if 4 clubs then it shows preference for 1 over 1 opposite 12-13 NT).
1 - a. Any 0-7 that is not a weak jump shift and not a pass; b. natural diamonds (we play Walsh); c. 8-11 HCP exactly 4=4 majors; d. 10+ HCP with 3=3=3=4 shape (so 4 clubs). (note: all our ranges can be shaded by a point if the hand is suitable)
1 - 8+ HCP, 4+ hearts, natural.
1 - 8+ HCP, 4+ spades, natural.
1NT - 8-10 points, can have 4cM without interest to play in it, desire to hog the hand in NT.

Going into the details of opener's rebids would be going off-topic, suffice to say the 1 is artificial and the followups are a bit involved. We very frequently open 1 on only a 2-card suit, and having a way to run from that contract is quite profitable. For convenience I've ignored the 4=4 majors 12+ HCP case over the 2NT rebid for now.

I don't like artificial raises of 2NT to 3NT, but maybe I can work around that. I am interested in straube's approach, but I was hoping to get some mileage out of breaking the transfer since we are in a GF.
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#8 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-September-20, 04:04

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-September-20, 03:55, said:

Yes, over 1 I play 'Full Dutch Doubleton'. So:
Pass - 0-6 with 4-5 clubs (if 4 clubs then it shows preference for 1 over 1 opposite 12-13 NT).
1 - a. Any 0-7 that is not a weak jump shift and not a pass; b. natural diamonds (we play Walsh); c. 8-11 HCP exactly 4=4 majors; d. 10+ HCP with 3=3=3=4 shape (so 4 clubs). (note: all our ranges can be shaded by a point if the hand is suitable)
1 - 8+ HCP, 4+ hearts, natural.
1 - 8+ HCP, 4+ spades, natural.
1NT - 8-10 points, can have 4cM without interest to play in it, desire to hog the hand in NT.

Going into the details of opener's rebids would be going off-topic, suffice to say the 1 is artificial and the followups are a bit involved. We very frequently open 1 on only a 2-card suit, and having a way to run from that contract is quite profitable. For convenience I've ignored the 4=4 majors 12+ HCP case over the 2NT rebid for now.

I don't like artificial raises of 2NT to 3NT, but maybe I can work around that. I am interested in straube's approach, but I was hoping to get some mileage out of breaking the transfer since we are in a GF.


Thanks - I keep learning and like the underlying the approach. I'll aim to build out the structure and compare to what I use at the moment
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#9 User is online   HardVector 

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Posted 2021-September-21, 10:05

I have seen a short club system that uses the auction: 1c-1M-2n to show a hand that has 6+ clubs with the values equivalent to a 1c/3c rebid, but has 3 card support for responder's major. The hands with only 3 card support but 16-18 in value is a hard hand to describe, and this bid solves that. Now if it goes 1c to 3c, responder knows you don't have 3+ cards in their major.
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#10 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2021-October-18, 06:56

1-1M; 2N-3 = 5+ M or strong

1-1; 2N-3; ?:

3 = 3S2-3H or 3433
...3 = relay w/ slam interest
......3 = 3S2H
.........3N = relay
............4 = 3244 (=> 4 = PKC(), 4 = PKC())
............4 = 3235 (=> 4 = PKC())
............4 = 3253 (=> 4 = PKC())
.........(...)
......3N = 33(43)
.........4 = relay
............4 = 3334 (=> 4 = PKC())
............4 = 3343 (=> 4 = PKC())
.........(...)
......4 = 3433 (=> 4 = PKC())
......4 = 3325 (=> 4 = PKC())
......4 = 3352 (=> 4 = PKC())
...(...)
3 = 4S2-3H
...3 = relay w/ slam interest
......3N = 4S2H
.........4 = relay
............4 = 4234 (=> 4 = PKC())
............4 = 4243 (=> 4 = PKC())
......4 = 4333 (=> 4 = PKC())
......4 = 4324 (=> 4 = PKC())
......4 = 4342 (=> 4 = PKC())
...(...)
3 = 2S3H
...3N = relay w/ slam interest
......4 = 2344 (=> 4 = PKC(), 4 = PKC())
......4 = 2335 (=> 4 = PKC())
......4 = 2353 (=> 4 = PKC())
...(...)
3N = 2S4H
...4 = relay w/ slam interest
......4 = 2434
......4 = 2443
...(...)
4 = 4S4H
...4 = relay w/ slam interest
......4 = 4423
......4+ = 4432, PKC() responses
...(...)
4 = 3424
4 = 3442

where PKC is Parity Key Card Blackwood.

1-1; 2N-3; `:

similar
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