[jillybean]

---

I'm lost for words here, I don't know how to start discussing this hand.

[smerriman]

I don't think you're following the right rules. Just from the perspective of North's first bid, as far as I'm aware the "rule" for takeout doubles is that a 4 card major always takes priority over a minor.

[jillybean]

I'm not sure which rule you are referring to but I would hope partner would look at the hand and realize that they had
one and only one bid here, partner's double suggest hearts, the only option is 2♥.

I think the 4 up, 5 down "rule" is when responding to partner's 1m when you hold 44 or 55 in the majors.

[smerriman]

Ah, I thought the topic title meant that you thought "4 up 5 down" applied here. Agree it doesn't

[jillybean]

I was really only having a rant at my frustration with partners who apply rules and seemingly don't apply any logic to the auction. My partners are smart people !!
To those who teach bridge please stop teaching "rules" and teach your students to think.

[AL78]

jillybean, on 2023-May-31, 07:27, said:

To those who teach bridge please stop teaching "rules" and teach your students to think.

I do my best, I don't teach rules, I teach rough guidelines alongside logic, but teaching people to think, whether at bridge or life in general, is an uphill battle. Here in SE England they haven't yet mastered the art of walking through a door without stopping midway and blocking it.

[shyams]

I am curious. Do people think the South hand is too strong for a simple 2♦ overcall instead of a double?

I am not seeing a game for our side if partner is so weak that they can't conjure up a bid if it goes (1♠) - 2♦ - (pass) - ??

[Cyberyeti]

shyams, on 2023-May-31, 08:53, said:

I am curious. Do people think the South hand is too strong for a simple 2♦ overcall instead of a double?

I am not seeing a game for our side if partner is so weak that they can't conjure up a bid if it goes (1♠) - 2♦ - (pass) - ??

Well ♣KQJ10x and out is a cold 3N and KQxxx is pretty good, is partner expected to bid over 2♦ with say xx, xxxx, xx, KQ10xx ?

[blackshoe]

"I'm tryin' ta think, but nothin's happenin'!" -- Curly Joe Howard

[shyams]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-May-31, 12:06, said:

Well ♣KQJ10x and out is a cold 3N and KQxxx is pretty good, is partner expected to bid over 2♦ with say xx, xxxx, xx, KQ10xx ?

The issue then is --- given that 2/1 is GF --- which action pays off more statistically? 2♦ or Dbl?

I am genuinely asking because I think the Dbl puts us on a path that more often leads to a worse outcome than a 2♦ overcall.

[jillybean]

shyams, on 2023-May-31, 12:18, said:

The issue then is --- given that 2/1 is GF --- which action pays off more statistically? 2♦ or Dbl?

I am genuinely asking because I think the Dbl puts us on a path that more often leads to a worse outcome than a 2♦ overcall.

How does 2/1 work in an overcall situation?

[shyams]

jillybean, on 2023-May-31, 12:19, said:

How does 2/1 work in an overcall situation?

Sorry, I erroneously added the phrase. My fault

[bluenikki]

I am not sure what you are asking.

I personally would have advanced 2[hearts, not because it is the major, but because it is the higher of touching suits.The 2♦ advance should have worked well though. The problem was South's 2♠. 3♦ would not be an underbid. Where did they think the cue would get them?

[bluenikki]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-May-31, 12:06, said:

Well ♣KQJ10x and out is a cold 3N and KQxxx is pretty good, is partner expected to bid over 2♦ with say xx, xxxx, xx, KQ10xx ?

But the 2♣ advance to a double could equally well be a topless suit. When doubler rebids 2♦, it will not occur to your example hand to suppress the hearts a second time. So the flu honors will still be unrevealed.

[bluenikki]

shyams, on 2023-May-31, 08:53, said:

I am curious. Do people think the South hand is too strong for a simple 2♦ overcall instead of a double?

I am not seeing a game for our side if partner is so weak that they can't conjure up a bid if it goes (1♠) - 2♦ - (pass) - ??

The problem with the overcall is not that it may be passed out.

It is that when advancer keeps the bidding open, you won't have anything sensible to do.

[AL78]

shyams, on 2023-May-31, 08:53, said:

I am curious. Do people think the South hand is too strong for a simple 2♦ overcall instead of a double?

I am not seeing a game for our side if partner is so weak that they can't conjure up a bid if it goes (1♠) - 2♦ - (pass) - ??

I do, and I would double intending to bid diamonds next time if partner doesn't bid spades or diamonds. The problem is what to do when partner does bid diamonds as my hand improves if we have a good fit. I'm not sure I would bid 2♠, probably 3♦ and hope partner takes that as showing a good hand.

[bluenikki]

AL78, on 2023-May-31, 13:57, said:

and hope partner takes that as showing a good hand.

Hope? Hope???