[msheald]

Hello! When I play in a free Express game, BBO considers a 2NT bid by responder after interference as 18-19 points, similar to a 2NT jump bid that would occur without interference. I've always played it that a 2NT bid after interference shows up to 14 (maybe 15 points) with balanced distro when it is not a jump, since it is the lowest NT bid that can occur after the interference. This gets us as unfamiliar partners into trouble.

What do folks think? since we rely on the bid explanations.

Here is the link. Best regards.

Mike

https://tinyurl.com/277mmzsx

[mikeh]

Test

[akwoo]

msheald, on 2024-March-08, 08:44, said:

Hello! When I play in a free Express game, BBO considers a 2NT bid by responder after interference as 18-19 points, similar to a 2NT jump bid that would occur without interference. I've always played it that a 2NT bid after interference shows up to 14 (maybe 15 points) with balanced distro when it is not a jump, since it is the lowest NT bid that can occur after the interference. This gets us as unfamiliar partners into trouble.

What do folks think? since we rely on the bid explanations.

Here is the link. Best regards.

Mike

https://tinyurl.com/277mmzsx

First of all - with your hand, the usual bid is a support double, showing 3 hearts.

Second, there is no need for a bid to show the 12-14 balanced hand here - you can PASS to do that - and that is exactly what pass shows. (In particular, unbalanced hands should strain to bid or double.) Think about it - you had an opening hand, and you have no bid here - is partner going to suddenly forget that you opened and play you for less than 12 hcp?

[fuzzyquack]

akwoo, on 2024-March-08, 09:53, said:

First of all - with your hand, the usual bid is a support double, showing 3 hearts.

Second, there is no need for a bid to show the 12-14 balanced hand here - you can PASS to do that - and that is exactly what pass shows. (In particular, unbalanced hands should strain to bid or double.) Think about it - you had an opening hand, and you have no bid here - is partner going to suddenly forget that you opened and play you for less than 12 hcp?

I can only state it more succinctly: Never bid the same hand twice

[jillybean]

akwoo, on 2024-March-08, 09:53, said:

First of all - with your hand, the usual bid is a support double, showing 3 hearts.

Second, there is no need for a bid to show the 12-14 balanced hand here - you can PASS to do that - and that is exactly what pass shows. (In particular, unbalanced hands should strain to bid or double.) Think about it - you had an opening hand, and you have no bid here - is partner going to suddenly forget that you opened and play you for less than 12 hcp?

This is the hardest bid to master. It means having confidence in partner and for anyone, especially us type A's, that takes a while to understand the logic and develop the discipline.

Great question!

[smerriman]

Just to add to the above, the reason many beginners bid 2nt here is not to "show 12-14 balanced", but to show a stopper in clubs.

But you have no need to do so (with weak hands), since if partner has extra values, you get to show your stopper on the next bid. If they don't, you certainly don't want to be playing in 2nt!

[apollo1201]

The interference relieves you from bidding as partner will be able to bid again, should you pass (which is obviously not the case w/o the interference). Therefore, no need to find a bid with a balanced 12-14, pass is fine, partner knows you have opened. If you bid, it is to show something new that partner does not yet know (e.g. Fit for partner s suit, very long suit of your own, extra strength, etc.).

If you also remember they partner has only shown 5-6 HCP with their 1st bid, venturing at 2NT requires the 18-19 bal hand (with stopper) to at least be safe at this level, and maybe reach game should partner not be too minimum for their bid.

[msheald]

Thank you, all, for your notes.

I'm actually curious about the difference between a 2NT and 3NT bid by opener. I had thought that a jump to 3NT meant 18-19 points, since responder's bid at the one level only promises 6 points. Responder can then pursue slam or a suit game with confidence, should responder feels so led. That is why I was surprised that BBO bid explanations states that a 2NT bid by opener (a NT bid at the lowest level) is actually 18 to 19 points. If opener goes to 3NT in this BBO scenario, what would that mean and what would one expect from the BBO description?

Last question. For folks who feel that pass by opener is the best course of action in this case - how is a stopper by opener in the interference suit shown since a pass says nothing about that?

I'm curious, how many folks who are responder with this type of hand would have gone on to bid 2NT should opener pass? Lets put it a different way - give responder 8 points but only two cards in the interference suit. Would any folks bid NT even thought opener's side likely has at least half the points and opener passes? I would not since it would appear that ops would likely run the interference suit since I, as responder, would not know if partner has a stopper or not if he passes. In MP, in my experience, it typically goes down and results in a bad board more often than not since we don't have a stopper.

My human partner and I play a 2NT response like this to be 12-14 points with a stopper in the interference suit. Unfortunately, we don't play support doubles, (but I should remember that with the robots!).

Additionally, we play responder's bid at the one level is unbounded. My human partner and I have missed a number of 2NT hands and 3NT games when ops interfered because opener passed even though he had the stopper in the interference suit while responder did not, letting ops play in their interference suit even though we would have had a good score had we played in NT.

I've read about recommendations alluded to above that a pass by opener is often best in this situation, but in my experience, this type of hand makes in NT more often than not when oepner's side has a stopper, so in MP, I typically show a stopper in the interference suit. As a result, a pass by opener means 11-14 points and no stopper. It puts responder in the captain's seat for further bidding.

Since good scores often come from making part scores (or going down less than ops would have made in their part-score!), and since 2NT part scores and 3NT games are easy to miss in this type of deal when declarer has the stopper but passes, my partner and I typically bid to show the stopper in the interference suit as well as point count. Thank you and best regards.

Mike

[DavidKok]

It's good to experiment and look for your own style, so I am happy that you are trying to assign meaning to these bids. Unfortunately I think the assignment you and your partner have chosen is really poor for technical reasons. I'll list a few points, though to me it sounds like you are happy with your style, which is what matters most.

• A minimum opening will often not be safe at the 2NT level. You are overbidding and risking forfeiting the last positive score you had on the auction.
  
• When you do have 18-19 balanced you often want to give partner some more room to describe their hand, as you don't know what game is best or might even have a slam on. So saving space by not having to jump to 3NT is an advantage.
  
• The jump to 3NT can be used for something artificial, usually a strong unbalanced hand with lots of card in the suit opened, though you may well choose to leave it idle. Partner is unlimited, and you should strain not to jump too much to give partner room to describe their hand.
  
• In the scenario you sketched, with opener having a minimum hand with a stopper and responder having no long or secondary suit and no values in their suit, responder can make a takeout double in passout seat. So you still find 2NT by opener.

[smerriman]

msheald, on 2024-March-08, 14:17, said:

Since good scores often come from making part scores (or going down less than ops would have made in their part-score!), and since 2NT part scores and 3NT games are easy to miss in this type of deal when declarer has the stopper but passes.

You should never miss these when they're the right contract - opener can simply bid no trumps on their next bid if appropriate.

(If responder has game values without a stopper and nothing else they want to show, they can cuebid 3♣ to ask you if you have a stopper, so you will absolutely never miss 3NT; and only 2NT when you have a better place to play.)

[Stephen Tu]

msheald, on 2024-March-08, 14:17, said:

If opener goes to 3NT in this BBO scenario, what would that mean and what would one expect from the BBO description?

Running long opening suit, stopper in the opponent's, enough fast tricks to expect to usually make opposite a minimum. Same hand type as when the opponent didn't overcall.

Quote

For folks who feel that pass by opener is the best course of action in this case - how is a stopper by opener in the interference suit shown since a pass says nothing about that?

Responder, if strong enough to bid on (not on your example hand, of course), can easily find out about stoppers by reopening with a double or a cue-bid, after which opener will show the stopper if not choosing to pass a double for penalties.

Quote

I'm curious, how many folks who are responder with this type of hand would have gone on to bid 2NT should opener pass? Lets put it a different way - give responder 8 points but only two cards in the interference suit. Would any folks bid NT even thought opener's side likely has at least half the points and opener passes?

You'd never bid 2nt as responder without invitational values yourself, more like 11 pts than 8. With only 8 points opposite partner's expected 12-14, normally you would either pass, support partner's opening suit, rebid a new suit or your own suit with extra shape, or reopen with a double with shortness in the opponent's suit and support for others at the 2 level.

Bidding 2nt routinely as opener with a stopper and 12-14 is a recipe to get clobbered, going down multiple tricks possibly vul, possibly doubled, when responder is weak. When responder is strong enough to actually support a 2nt contract they should be able to scrape up a double or something else to compete for the partial. If they have the wrong shape and both of you have length in the opp's suit, and responder isn't strong/shapely enough to do anything but pass it out, you may be able to defeat the opp's contract, or maybe your side's options score worse than -90/-110 anyway.

[akwoo]

msheald, on 2024-March-08, 14:17, said:

I'm curious, how many folks who are responder with this type of hand would have gone on to bid 2NT should opener pass? Lets put it a different way - give responder 8 points but only two cards in the interference suit. Would any folks bid NT even thought opener's side likely has at least half the points and opener passes? I would not since it would appear that ops would likely run the interference suit since I, as responder, would not know if partner has a stopper or not if he passes. In MP, in my experience, it typically goes down and results in a bad board more often than not since we don't have a stopper.

Responder has a very nice bid in this situation after opener passes - responder can double.

This double shows at least near-invitational values, not too many cards in clubs, and asks opener to bid something (unless they have a club stack and want to penalize). Frequently that will be 2N with a club stopper and a balanced hand.

[msheald]

Thank you, all. I appreciate your guidance. I'll keep track of my scores using 2NT with stopper as 13-14 points with a stopper to see if it pans out more often than note. It really needs one of the fancy 5000 deal programs to see if it is good or not, and I don't have one of those.

I'm still curious though. Other than using 3NT as an artificial bid, what would 3NT (instead of 2NT by opener) mean in Standard American? Best regards.

Mike

[jillybean]

For me, 3nt means I forgot to open 2♣ or I don't trust my partner, I'm not sure what meaning it has in "Standard American"

[smerriman]

Without discussion I would assume 3nt is the same meaning as without interference, like Stephen Tu above - which is a long running minor.