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5332 hands into 1D

#21 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2024-April-22, 14:35

I googled "bridge canape bidding". The hits that I looked at usually start by saying that it refers to bidding a shorter suit before a longer suit, but in the details they explain that it applies to 2-suiters, i.e. both suits are at least 4 cards long.

I think everyone understands that this applies to systems that don't follow "natural" 5-card major bidding, where it's often necessary to open a shorter minor if you don't have a 5-card major. The ACBL convention chars and alert procedures are written with this understanding in mind.

#22 User is offline   Shugart23 

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Posted 2024-April-25, 06:35

View Postbarmar, on 2024-April-22, 14:35, said:

I googled "bridge canape bidding". The hits that I looked at usually start by saying that it refers to bidding a shorter suit before a longer suit, but in the details they explain that it applies to 2-suiters, i.e. both suits are at least 4 cards long.

I think everyone understands that this applies to systems that don't follow "natural" 5-card major bidding, where it's often necessary to open a shorter minor if you don't have a 5-card major. The ACBL convention chars and alert procedures are written with this understanding in mind.



The answer I received from ACBL is I should include the fact that our 1D bid may include a 5 card Major in my pre-alert. It doesn't seem an alert will be needed if the bid is actually made
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#23 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2024-April-25, 11:23

I repeat (on auto- at this point): you have to Announce your 1 as "could be 2". An Announcement is a (special kind of) Alert. They are saying that it isn't enough that the Announcement isn't sufficient - provided the information was in the Pre-Alert.

Seems fine by me. Of course, I would say that, given that was my suggestion, too :-)
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#24 User is offline   PrecisionL 

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Posted 2024-April-25, 12:01

I play canape (no 5-cd Major openings) and I know the ACBL rules:

Pre-alert that your opening diamond bid may be a short as 0-1 and the hand may contain a 5-cd major.

During the auction alert a major suit rebid that may be 5-cds or longer (not usually at the 1-level?).
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#25 User is offline   Shugart23 

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Posted 2024-April-25, 12:11

View Postmycroft, on 2024-April-25, 11:23, said:

I repeat (on auto- at this point): you have to Announce your 1 as "could be 2". An Announcement is a (special kind of) Alert. They are saying that it isn't enough that the Announcement isn't sufficient - provided the information was in the Pre-Alert.

Seems fine by me. Of course, I would say that, given that was my suggestion, too :-)


correct
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#26 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2024-April-25, 16:26

View Postmycroft, on 2024-April-21, 10:04, said:

The issue with Alerting is that you will be asked - especially because with a minimal Pre-Alert (1 is Precision, 1 is 10-15, 2+) and they will assume it's something REALLY STRANGE because I mean, what could it be? Oh, rarely you'll have 5cM in a flat minimum hand, because you treat all 5332s as balanced. Uh - good to know, I guess?

I don't see having the opponents ask as an issue. As soon as they ask and you answer, they will know that 1 was not REALLY STRANGE, and the bidding will proceed normally.
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