[thepossum]

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I managed to find 5(+1) here which is the correct contract, but how can you find if you have the missing cards opposite
I wanted to splinter which wasn't available for me and 2NT is generic feature ask without much specific information, but you will get encouragement

[Cyberyeti]

Partly depends on what your weak 2s look like, can partner have ♠AQ ♣A for example? If not, then you're specifically looking for ♦K or maybe singleton with ♣J which you're never going to be able to find out about, or the 2 black aces.

We specifically prohibit 2 aces in a first seat weak 2, and can't have AQA plus would open many 6421 9s at the 1 level, so the target shrinks to a 6(322)/6313 hand with ♠AQ and ♦K or just possibly some hands with a stiff diamond.

It helps here to play a method other than Ogust here, we used to play that with a maximum we would bid a long suit feature, so if partner shows diamonds, you know you're in business.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

4H would be a good start, assuming it is a splinter, the downside is,
you have no idea, if partner has a min or max.

An alternative is starting with 2NT, if p showes min, sign of in 4S,
if max start a cue bidding seq. by biding a new suit on the 4 level.
Keep in mind, that the robots are not very good with cue bidding,
to put it mildy.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-October-16, 04:33, said:

It helps here to play a method other than Ogust here, we used to play that with a maximum we would bid a long suit feature, so if partner shows diamonds, you know you're in business.

I have a modified Ogust (for this and other reasons) in the brew, will post it here when I have thought it through.
With OP's agreements I would have bid 2NT Feature rather than a 4 level splinter, even if available: they aren't going to reply clubs and you know what to do after diamonds or hearts respectively.
With my modified Ogust and partner with a max of ♠AQ ♦K it might go:
2♠-2N
3♣(max)-3♦
4♦(feature)-4N(RCKB)
5♣(1)-5♦(Q?)
6♦(Q+♦K)-6♠
P

[thepossum]

Hi
Thx for comments I tried posting last night but maybe there was site maintenance

I was struggling how to identify exactly which features and other controls were available
Even 5 was a gamble but etc

Partner is known to have fairly strong pre-empts - and I was confident of least one Ace - and hopefully the Ace of trumps

I have never had chance to play Ogust. Splinter was not available so I did the generic feature ask

While I said that 5 was the correct contract - only if i could bid it confidently

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[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the feature ask told you 6S is not on. Slam can only be good, if p has a max and no wastage in
hearts. Has has max, but wastage in hearts.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cyberyeti]

P_Marlowe, on 2024-October-16, 22:47, said:

Hi,

the feature ask told you 6S is not on. Slam can only be good, if p has a max and no wastage in
hearts. Has has max, but wastage in hearts.

With kind regards
Marlowe

6 is not terrible on that layout I would suggest you're in decent shape if trumps are 2-2, the heart wastage actually has a nice use in that forcing dummy to ruff a heart gets rid of 1-2 losers from your hand. That said I would give up on slam once partner shows heart values.

[thepossum]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-October-17, 02:50, said:

6 is not terrible on that layout I would suggest you're in decent shape if trumps are 2-2, the heart wastage actually has a nice use in that forcing dummy to ruff a heart gets rid of 1-2 losers from your hand. That said I would give up on slam once partner shows heart values.

I accept there were not many points left but you never know. My 100% eyes lit up. But sometimes you have to play safe and pass at 5

I tried commenting earlier but apparently I killed the whole of BBO all day

[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-October-17, 02:50, said:

6 is not terrible on that layout I would suggest you're in decent shape if trumps are 2-2, the heart wastage actually has a nice use in that forcing dummy to ruff a heart gets rid of 1-2 losers from your hand. That said I would give up on slam once partner shows heart values.

Not terrible but I think I'd rather have better odds to bid the slam than playing a nine card trump suit for no losers missing QJ. If you apply the law of restricted choice you will get it wrong when one opponent has QJ doubleton and you finesse on the second round into them.

[thepossum]

AL78, on 2024-October-17, 03:48, said:

Not terrible but I think I'd rather have better odds to bid the slam than playing a nine card trump suit for no losers missing QJ. If you apply the law of restricted choice you will get it wrong when one opponent has QJ doubleton and you finesse on the second round into them.

The Queen was the decider despite having to guess partner had the Ace of trumps
Quite a reliable partner in that respect

[Cyberyeti]

AL78, on 2024-October-17, 03:48, said:

Not terrible but I think I'd rather have better odds to bid the slam than playing a nine card trump suit for no losers missing QJ. If you apply the law of restricted choice you will get it wrong when one opponent has QJ doubleton and you finesse on the second round into them.

You don't apply restricted choice here, if trumps are 3-1 you still have a lot more hurdles to jump to make, so you play for them 2-2

[thepossum]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-October-17, 04:54, said:

You don't apply restricted choice here, if trumps are 3-1 you still have a lot more hurdles to jump to make, so you play for them 2-2

Play but not bid

EDIT Looking at my acution I didn't even ask for the Queen - maybe I thought about it and chickened out anyway - but given I embarked on Blackwood you can see how my memory went awry - and I must have thought about asking for it - people will start to think I make things up - how to ruin a good story. Put up the facts

[helene_t]

In the OP responder has diQ instead of diK.

With diQ I would ask for a feature and then ask keycards if p has diK or clA. But it's not unreasonable just to bid 4sp immediately.

[thepossum]

helene_t, on 2024-October-18, 00:36, said:

In the OP responder has diQ instead of diK.

With diQ I would ask for a feature and then ask keycards if p has diK or clA. But it's not unreasonable just to bid 4sp immediately.

I sort of got stuck between 4 spade reality and slam optimism, and almost took a gamble on 100% - you can see from the auction and my addled memory of my hught procees that I almost asked for a queen, kind of thought we had the Ace of trumps, but wasn't sure etc I had visions of my parter answering positive with the Queen ad Jack of trumps and A of hearts. I take solace that if I had asked for the Queen I would have been in 5 anyway
I really thought a chance of AQ trumps, and with my hand surely you have to think chance of slam

[DavidKok]

I was planning on staying out of this thread, telling myself that preemptive styles differ, it is robot bridge, and also I've been commenting too much lately anyway. But stating that "surely you have to think chance of slam" is like waving a red flag. I'll bite.

You need a near-perfect maximum opposite to make slam odds-on. Good trumps and some help in the minors, with little room left for wastage in hearts. You can find out about some of this with a slow route - whether 2NT is Ogust, asks for a feature or a shortage, all are useful. This then gives you room for a slam auction where partner can evaluate their hand. At any rate I would expect to park this deal in 4♠, but if partner unexpectedly keeps cooperating we may find a slam. Certainly I am not pushing past 4♠ myself.

Rather than thinking of the hand you want partner to have, think of the range they have limited their hand to. Which fraction are you playing partner for? Can you find out more information before any crucial decision points? If partner has the hand you need, would they cooperate?

[thepossum]

DavidKok, on 2024-October-18, 06:35, said:

I was planning on staying out of this thread, telling myself that preemptive styles differ, it is robot bridge, and also I've been commenting too much lately anyway. But stating that "surely you have to think chance of slam" is like waving a red flag. I'll bite.

You need a near-perfect maximum opposite to make slam odds-on. Good trumps and some help in the minors, with little room left for wastage in hearts. You can find out about some of this with a slow route - whether 2NT is Ogust, asks for a feature or a shortage, all are useful. This then gives you room for a slam auction where partner can evaluate their hand. At any rate I would expect to park this deal in 4♠, but if partner unexpectedly keeps cooperating we may find a slam. Certainly I am not pushing past 4♠ myself.

Rather than thinking of the hand you want partner to have, think of the range they have limited their hand to. Which fraction are you playing partner for? Can you find out more information before any crucial decision points? If partner has the hand you need, would they cooperate?

I did check that it was a maximum and my partner often preempts on very strong hands... but AQ trumps would have worked!
I have done some analyses on weak twos too, although not very sophisticated - using things like loser counts

But surely with a hand like that you think "chance of slam" - and I did chicken out - the feature doesn't have to be much -AQ of trumps and possibly a useless feature in hearts

I accept that stopping in 5 suggests unnecessary risk - and I knew I didn't have the methods to check

And also my meaningless sims give my hoped-for hand only round 70% channce

I do bow to the expert judgement above

I often open one with strong weak two hands - not that one - 10 points perhaps