[jillybean]

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MP 2♦ NMF
I hope you evaluate this hand as invitational.
Over a minimum response from partner do you like to invite with 3♥ or 2N?
Does 3♥ show 6, less points?

[mw64ahw]

Nope - South is worth 4♥ 14 total points, 7 mod. losers opposite a min 12hcp and 3-card support assuming no light club opening.

[jillybean]

Yeah, ok. Can you ignore the hand and answer the question?

[jdiana]

Sorry if I'm committing the same sin as mw64ahw, but I'm not sure what the point of inviting is. Opener has already told you they have a minimum hand (11 to a bad 13) and 3-card support. (They would have bid 3♥ if they were at the upper end of their 12-14 point range.) So I think you just make a decision and ether pass or bid 4♥. I would also bid 4♥.

[mw64ahw]

Answering the question you can use any of the bids from 2♠ to 3♥ to invite now that a fit has been found.

[jillybean]

Let me rephrase this.

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Over a minimum response from partner do you like to (re) invite with 3♥ or 2N?
Could 3♥ show 6, stretching the invitation?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

3H is not inv., it is game forcing, showing slam interest.
2NT may or may not be inv., ..., assuming the 1NT rebid could
contain a 4 card spade suit, and you want to right side the contract,
although for simplicity I would again play 2NT as forcing.

The reason is simple: partner showed a min, if you found a fit with
exactly inv. values, you pass, playing happily 2H, maybe you make +1.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdiana]

 jillybean, on 2024-December-04, 10:47, said:

Let me rephrase this.

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Over a minimum response from partner do you like to invite with 3♥ or 2N?
Could 3♥ show 6, stretching the invitation?

The first part of my comment was not hand-specific - it was more about my understanding of how to play NMF. But, after carefully re-reading this write-up from Karen Walker - https://kwbridge.com/nmf.htm - it looks like she recommends bidding 3H to invite game. I don't really get that because, in my mind, opener's 2H bid already said he would decline an invitation. But c'est la vie.

[DavidKok]

There are several ways to play this. I'll share some questions and thoughts, to be answered by your partnership:

• Does 1NT deny a 4c♠ suit? It doesn't for me, in which case responder needs to ask for that with 4=4 in the majors. In return, this means that 2♦ does not promise a fifth heart. If 1NT denies four spades then 2♦ should always be 5(+)♥.
  
• Can 1NT ever contain a singleton in responder's major? This may make it unsafe to set trumps with a slammish hand with 6 of them, which might cause issues regarding negative inferences.
  
• Does opener jump ever in response to 2♦? In some versions of NMF, opener's 2-level responses show a minimum. This gains opposite an invite, allowing you to stay at the 2-level, as well as gaining if responder was slammish facing a maximum but not a minimum (allowing for less information leakage on the way to game). Conversely, when opener jumps with a maximum and responder had slam ambitions, the preemptive effect is undesirable. When I played Checkback Stayman (not 2-way) we had the agreement to never jump.
  
• If opener is going to commit to 3M on the 1m-1M; 1NT-? start, there are two routes to do it: immediately, and through NMF. At most one of these should be an invite, and possibly neither. I think it is sensible for the direct jump to set trumps and be a slam try, promising 6(+) cards. What are your agreements here? An extra complication is that, in my style, where 1NT doesn't deny 4 spades, so 2♦ can be 4=4 majors, a 3-5 heart fit isn't confirmed on 1♣-1♥; 1NT-2♦; 2♥-?. Therefore responder, with a slammish hand with exactly 5 hearts (remember: the direct jump to 3♥ showed 6(+) for me) needs a way to confirm trumps.

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2024-December-04, 09:29, said:

---

MP 2♦ NMF
I hope you evaluate this hand as invitational.
Over a minimum response from partner do you like to invite with 3♥ or 2N?
Does 3♥ show 6, less points?

Dont play nmf, prefer XYZ but if pickup game then
1. Right in the middle between inv and gf after pard agrees hearts.(Playing XYZ, for me, this is barely a 2c inv bid, really minimum, in fact 2h for me is a real option here over 1nt, but probably would bid 2c...2d ..2h for me)
2. without discussion, 3H
3. If you mean 3h bid rather than 2d? for me solid inv. 12-13...6H, please bid some game with 13, or acceptable 12 (smile).

[pescetom]

 mike777, on 2024-December-04, 14:51, said:

Dont play nmf, prefer XYZ

I quote this, especially after this thread

[jillybean]

I too play XYZ, as do most of my partners.

I'll have to rethink my question, or the problem I'm trying to solve.

[nullve]

DavidKok, on 2024-December-04, 11:51, said:

If 1NT denies four spades then 2♦ should always be 5(+)♥.

Then what is Responder supposed to do with 4H4m(32) and slam interest?

[DavidKok]

I bid a balanced GF with those, but you can alternatively put them through NMF. Even more variations I didn't think of!

Most important is that if your NMF did not promise extra length, you do not have a confirmed fit on hearing 2♥. You therefore need continuations that confirm it as well as continuations that deny it.