[jillybean]

I am playing at the Club today and took a detailed look over my CC this morning.
It has been updated many times, a major change, years ago, our 1nt range was changed to 12-14.

I noticed that we have sandwich nt marked on our card; (1x) P (1y) 1nt shows the other 2 suits, while using Michaels or U2nt shows the same with better values.
I think we obviously want and have been playing, 1nt showing a strong 15-18 hand.

I don't see sandwich nt being played, has it fallen out of favour?

[awm]

jillybean, on 2025-March-17, 08:53, said:

I am playing at the Club today and took a detailed look over my CC this morning.
It has been updated many times, a major change, years ago, our 1nt range was changed to 12-14.

I noticed that we have sandwich nt marked on our card; (1x) P (1y) 1nt shows the other 2 suits, while using Michaels or U2nt shows the same with better values.
I think we obviously want and have been playing, 1nt showing a strong 15-18 hand.

I don't see sandwich nt being played, has it fallen out of favour?

Elianna and I still play it (although we don't play Michaels in the auction you named, preferring 2x and 2y both natural). But it's fallen out of favour; most experts prefer a natural 1NT here because they're afraid of being robbed by opponents using very light openings/responses.

[jdiana]

Good question - good answer!

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

we still play Sandwich, 2X as Michaels (I would need to recheck), 2Y as natural, and 2NT as Unusual and X as T/O.
The diff between X, 1NT, 2X and 2NT is distribution, X starts with 44, ... 1NT could be 5-4, 2NT will be 55.

It never comes up, but I also dont miss a natural NT in this position, which also never comes up, so in short, it
is mood, and you should play, whatever you can remember.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-March-17, 09:23, said:

Hi,

we still play Sandwich, 2X as Michaels (I would need to recheck), 2Y as natural, and 2NT as Unusual and X as T/O.
The diff between X, 1NT, 2X and 2NT is distribution, X starts with 44, ... 1NT could be 5-4, 2NT will be 55.

It never comes up, but I also dont miss a natural NT in this position, which also never comes up, so in short, it
is mood, and you should play, whatever you can remember.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Or play what you think you remember and hope partner has forgotten/remembered the same.
Playing mini and weak nt, I would miss the strong 1nt in these situations.

[mw64ahw]

I play
X as weak equal length (44+) other suits or some strong long hand
1N longer higher ranked suit
2x longer lower ranked suit
2y strong equal length (55+) other suits

I'm not sure how useful 1N as 15-18 is given the opponents have a combined minimum of say 18hcp leaving responder to often Pass. 1N may or may not be doubled so you need an exit strategy.

[mycroft]

As AWM says, the argument against Sandwich NT is that it goes 1♦-p-1♥ and you have 16 flat...but 1♦ was on AQTxxx and a card and 1♥ was on a stiff and ♥KTxxx (and responder knows that partner won't jump to game because they're limited to 15).

However, in most clubs (I'd say "almost all"), the chance of that is near-zero. There, the advantage of being able to say "I have a takeout with shape" and "I have a takeout with cards" (and "I have a one-suiter. Yes, I know it's a bad break and you don't have support, it's still good enough"(*)) makes up for the times you have game interest with "max 22". Especially in an auction that is very likely to be competitive, giving partner the information to decide where and how high, and when to drop the axe, is easily worth it.

Another argument in favour of S/W NT is that the experts worried about missing game are pointing their system at long-form IMP-scored KO matches (whether it be Bracket 1 of YARegional their client has brought them to or National/World Championships). You and I are not - we're playing matchpoint pairs, where the cost of missing game is "just another zero", and the bonuses in the much more common competitive auctions are "A- to A+". Doesn't take too many of those to overcome the (again, near-never against our competition) "talked out of game zero". The experts are playing 2-1 odds the other way (10 IMPs vs 5 or 6 for a double-partscore swing) and both get more of them and are just better than we are at judging the competitive hands even without the extra information (plus, the opponents don't get that info, for what that's worth. They're much better at using it than our opponents).

(*)I know some pairs that play what they call "skewed cues", where 2 lower shows 4-5 in the other two suits and 2 higher shows 5-4 (and 1NT shows "real shape" and X shows "cards takeout"). Not sure what I think of that, but much better players than I play it.

[bluenikki]

mw64ahw, on 2025-March-17, 10:32, said:

I play
X as weak equal length (44+) other suits or some strong long hand
1N longer higher ranked suit
2x longer lower ranked suit
2y strong equal length (55+) other suits

Giving out such specific shape information seems a bad idea if the opponents are going to declare.

[mw64ahw]

bluenikki, on 2025-March-17, 11:55, said:

Giving out such specific shape information seems a bad idea if the opponents are going to declare.

It improves your chance of finding the best competing contract and makes little difference if the opponents declare, often at a level too high