[P_Marlowe]

thepossum, on 2025-May-22, 18:47, said:

Just commenting again
I am rather surprised at so many bidding 1NT with that hand
Partner could be quite light and flat. You have no cover in most suits
All your honours are queens and jacks
Opps could have more points
I'm hoping maybe South will bid and partner can describe their big hand better next time round

The 1NT response by responder does not promise a balanced hand / stopper or cover in most suits,
this is quite often claimed, but is garbage.
It is a bid you have to make, because p could be quite strong and you could have a combined HCP count
of 25+, enough for game.
And with regards to evaluation of bal. hands, HCP works pretty well, and responders hand is bal.

I dont mind pass, but in the N/B section of the forum 1NT is the bid.

Anybody who claims different, ..., go to a different section.

[pescetom]

 thepossum, on 2025-May-22, 18:47, said:

Partner could be quite light and flat.

No she could not, that was my last point above.
She is in fourth seat.
You could not open and the opponents already offered a draw, why go looking for trouble?

[thepossum]

Come on
You could have 11 points (not mathematically. 12) and 4 spades (sorry 3) lol

I thought people open light in 4th seat

But whatever I stand by my pass

Give me 2 more points please

We know it is between 12 and 14 points vulnerable or more than 17

Given that I actually give more support to 1 heart but still prefer not to be declarer in anything

[thepossum]

 P_Marlowe, on 2025-May-23, 02:43, said:

The 1NT response by responder does not promise a balanced hand / stopper or cover in most suits,
this is quite often claimed, but is garbage.
It is a bid you have to make, because p could be quite strong and you could have a combined HCP count
of 25+, enough for game.
And with regards to evaluation of bal. hands, HCP works pretty well, and responders hand is bal.

I dont mind pass, but in the N/B section of the forum 1NT is the bid.

Anybody who claims different, ..., go to a different section.

Where should I go
Expert lol

[thepossum]

 P_Marlowe, on 2025-May-23, 02:43, said:

The 1NT response by responder does not promise a balanced hand / stopper or cover in most suits,
this is quite often claimed, but is garbage.
It is a bid you have to make, because p could be quite strong and you could have a combined HCP count
of 25+, enough for game.
And with regards to evaluation of bal. hands, HCP works pretty well, and responders hand is bal.

I dont mind pass, but in the N/B section of the forum 1NT is the bid.

Anybody who claims different, ..., go to a different section.

Where should I go
Expert lol

[thepossum]

 P_Marlowe, on 2025-May-23, 02:43, said:

The 1NT response by responder does not promise a balanced hand / stopper or cover in most suits,
this is quite often claimed, but is garbage.
It is a bid you have to make, because p could be quite strong and you could have a combined HCP count
of 25+, enough for game.
And with regards to evaluation of bal. hands, HCP works pretty well, and responders hand is bal.

I dont mind pass, but in the N/B section of the forum 1NT is the bid.

Anybody who claims different, ..., go to a different section.

Thanks for the compliment

Keep teaching nbs rubbish all of you

I am complimented very much that I do not belong here

[P_Marlowe]

thepossum, on 2025-May-23, 04:35, said:

Thanks for the compliment

Keep teaching nbs rubbish all of you

I am complimented very much that I do not belong here

I dont know your background, but i took it you worked as software developer.
If you teach someone programming, you start with if-then-else and a for loop.
You dont start with functional programming, and I dont believe it a good idea,
to start beginners teaching a language like whitespace.

You start at the beginning, if you have the foundations fixed you go to the next
level.

I encounter lots of peoble, that have pretty garbled ideas, that dont work well
together, and they learned those stuff from peoble like you.

Now facing those guys at the table is brilliant for my score, if taking ideas is
brilliant for those, that I have encountered at the table, is a different matter.

As I said, Pass is ok, this is NOT the beginning, but the N/B bid is Pass.
You break / tweak the rules, when you learned the rules, and understood the rules.
If you understand the rules, you may also know, when the rules dont apply.

[thepossum]

Not a software developer
Not sure where you got that from

You all need to stop with the endless patronising put downs

You all need to look at your pathetic insecurity and alstop the personal attacks against one person

Grow up all of you

One after another year after year

Seriously

Why the personal attacks against one person

I know in many areas of my life so many so called authority figures have felt terribly insecure and threatened by me for some reason

We are trying to teach people a game

If my partner passes I just smile and say thankyou partner

Worst thing I was ever taught was NB anything

Really you just joined a long line of pathetic insecure creatures who for some reason need to keep attacking everything I say. Even when othes said the same thing

Explain why you all go after me cowards

8 years now. And usually others have suggested the same bids. You ever go after them

But thanks for the compliment

I will take my advice to more advanced forums and let you lot misguide the nbs

Could have said that to a lot of powerful authorities who tried teaching and insulting me like you lot

Too used to teaching ignoramuses

Sorry that's rude to the naive students paying money and wasting time being taught rubbish by so many highly paid ignoramuses

I some of these people taught all the erroneous rubbish and methods are out their practicing and causing endless harm

But Bridge is just a game so let people have a bit if freedom

But at least they aren't destroying millions of lives playing csrds

As you were. I am clearly in the wrong forum

Trying to get a bit of light relief from a world so systemically ignorant and corrupt all the major authorities are in bed with the corruption

But I will accept that according to this forum NBs should just add up their points and bid 1 NT without having to think

Needs fingers on two hands and looking at their little notes. Ooh 6 points 1NT

I have had to sit in virtual lectures with dozens of prospective young professionals being taught total rot

[Cyberyeti]

thepossum, on 2025-May-23, 03:47, said:

Come on
You could have 11 points (not mathematically. 12) and 4 spades (sorry 3) lol

I thought people open light in 4th seat

But whatever I stand by my pass

Give me 2 more points please

We know it is between 12 and 14 points vulnerable or more than 17

Given that I actually give more support to 1 heart but still prefer not to be declarer in anything

What do you open with AKxx, x, AKxx, AKxx ? most open 1♦ and you just missed a slam, yes you might get rescued, but you might not.

It's a little different for me playing weak NT and partner hasn't opened one, so he has shape or points.

[P_Marlowe]

thepossum, on 2025-May-23, 03:47, said:

<snip>
We know it is between 12 and 14 points vulnerable or more than 17
<snip>

The following does not matter with regards, to why I think, 1 NT is the bid:
but he opened in 4th seat, we have below opening strength.

This makes it more likely, that he has a strong bal. hand, which was not strong
enough to open 2NT.

Your tendency to upgrade into a 2NT opening matter, and so does your tendency to
strain to (not) open a strong 2C.

It is possible / reasonable, that given a specific style, pass is working better.
1 NT wrong sides the contract very often.
Avoiding to wrong side is a big reason to open 1H, but the downside of 1H is, that
you may end up in 4H in a 43 fit, not the end of the world, but also not a pleasant
target either.

[Huibertus]

thepossum, on 2025-May-23, 04:07, said:

Where should I go
Expert lol

The comment you disagree with is SPOT ON. A completely different hand I played here recently as an example (yes it is extreme);

Partner was a BOT but I would have sacked any other partner who passed for not having 6 points. Oh and don't comment this is a 2 ♣ opening, it is not.
It is simply true you have to factor in real strong hands.

---

[P_Marlowe]

Peoble haven an aversion to respond with 1NT with below req. strength, in contrast to responding with 1 in a suit.
Partially the aversion is justified, but only partially.

Similar, passing 1C with only 1 or 2 cards in clubs and with 0-? HCP, due to the fact that 1C could be short.

Basically one has to understand, that sometimes one needs to go to the doctor, even if it is no fun.

[Cyberyeti]

Huibertus, on 2025-May-23, 07:26, said:

The comment you disagree with is SPOT ON. A completely different hand I played here recently as an example (yes it is extreme);

Partner was a BOT but I would have sacked any other partner who passed for not having 6 points. Oh and don't comment this is a 2 ♣ opening, it is not.
It is simply true you have to factor in real strong hands.

---

I'd have sacked my human partner for not Ekrening the small hand, but yes you have to respond on these hands.

[mikl_plkcc]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-May-23, 02:43, said:

The 1NT response by responder does not promise a balanced hand / stopper or cover in most suits,
this is quite often claimed, but is garbage.
It is a bid you have to make, because p could be quite strong and you could have a combined HCP count
of 25+, enough for game.
And with regards to evaluation of bal. hands, HCP works pretty well, and responders hand is bal.

I dont mind pass, but in the N/B section of the forum 1NT is the bid.

Anybody who claims different, ..., go to a different section.

In the N/B section, there is NO BID for this hand.

The rule is that a 1NT response needs 6-9 HCPs, but this hand IS NOT WORTH 6 HCPs. It only worths about 5 due to the queens and jacks in short, dodgy suits.

When the hand is played without trumps, you need half of the strength to take 7 tricks out of 13, and a 1-bid normally shows 12-19 HCPs (although it is possible to be more as it is not really limited). If opener is in the range of 12-14, 1NT is basically hopeless. If opener is in the range of 15-17, given the failure of opening 1NT, playing in ♦ may well score higher than risking 1NT, so you only lose out if opener is 18+, and with matchpoint scoring, it is not worth risking going down against 12-14 v.s. missing a game v.s. 20+.

Huibertus, on 2025-May-23, 07:26, said:

The comment you disagree with is SPOT ON. A completely different hand I played here recently as an example (yes it is extreme);

Partner was a BOT but I would have sacked any other partner who passed for not having 6 points. Oh and don't comment this is a 2 ♣ opening, it is not.
It is simply true you have to factor in real strong hands.

---

---

You are doomed.

[P_Marlowe]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-May-23, 09:18, said:

In the N/B section, there is NO BID for this hand.

The rule is that a 1NT response needs 6-9 HCPs, but this hand IS NOT WORTH 6 HCPs. It only worths about 5 due to the queens and jacks in short, dodgy suits.

<snip>

If you downgrade fine, ..., QJx in partner suit is usefull and may be 2 entries, QTxxx facing a likely 3 carder in p balanced could be a Src of tricks.
But sure, developing the suit, if at all possible, may take time, ... and the lead will hit p tenances.

[jillybean]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-May-23, 09:18, said:

---

You are doomed.

Yes, time for a new partner. Why would anyone open this 1C?

[P_Marlowe]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-May-23, 09:18, said:

In the N/B section, there is NO BID for this hand.

The rule is that a 1NT response needs 6-9 HCPs, but this hand IS NOT WORTH 6 HCPs. It only worths about 5 due to the queens and jacks in short, dodgy suits.

When the hand is played without trumps, you need half of the strength to take 7 tricks out of 13, and a 1-bid normally shows 12-19 HCPs (although it is possible to be more as it is not really limited). If opener is in the range of 12-14, 1NT is basically hopeless. If opener is in the range of 15-17, given the failure of opening 1NT, playing in ♦ may well score higher than risking 1NT, so you only lose out if opener is 18+, and with matchpoint scoring, it is not worth risking going down against 12-14 v.s. missing a game v.s. 20+.

---

You are doomed.

You end up in 2C and are likely to make 5-6 tricks, which means -100 or -150, given that
they have 24HCP, they can make 1NT+?, which will score -120 or -150.
The score wont be great, but doomed is to harsh.

[diana_eva]

I'm not even sure where to start with this thread...

Just a reminder to please stay on topic -- this is the newbie section, so let's keep it welcoming and helpful.
I'm not going to go post-by-post moderating tone or side arguments, but I'd really appreciate it if we could all take a breath and keep things chill from here on. 🙏

Thanks!

[DavidKok]

I think it's close enough between 1NT and pass that I won't fault either, though as mentioned I think 1NT is better.
It's always the close decisions that cause the worst fights, and the level of religious zeal that people have been defending their opinion with is very entertaining. The title of the thread and choice of forum are the cherries on top - a highly amusing read.

The considerations for minimum openings and minimum responses are interesting, complex and educational. However, I wouldn't base it too much on the examples above. In my opinion a more thorough exploration of the pros and cons would go beyond the scope of this thread or subforum.

[jillybean]

Haha, you're right, of course.
I posted this in the N/B forum because these are questions that N/B have and a question that still gives me the willies.
Playing a weak nt is strengthening my confidence of bidding 1nt without "stoppers in all unbid suits"