[Wackojack]

Scoring: IMP

A hand again from the Swiss pairs at Brighton. The competitive bidding against us was crazy but we didn't take advantage. It was:
S W N E
1♠ x 1NT 2♣
p 2♦ p 2♥
p p p

---

My partner sitting South said he was afraid to double the 2♣ bid because we hadn't discussed and agreed that this was for penalties. (I would have taken it for penalties in the absence of agreement otherwise) Thereafter I wimped out on doubling 2♦ and 2♥ afraid of a correction to 3♣. It duly went 4 off and we gained 5 on this board instead of 14.

In the team discussion after, I explained my understanding that a double of an intervention after 1NT is for penalties because of the limited range and shape of this bid. Our team mates told me that they play a double for take-out in this position and therefore after a pass expect a re-opening double by opener on most hands. The more I have thought about this, the more attractive it seems. Had we been playing this on the actual hand I think we should still have got a penalty since after 2♦, now I must double (of course now for penalties) because it is now more likely partner had clubs with his spades.

What are the views generally on pass for a re-opening double after a response of 1NT and intervention? btw we play 1NT response 6-9 because we open 12-14 NT. Our team mates play EHAA!! mini NT, (don't laugh)I don't know their 1NT response range.

btw on another hand I opened a weak 2♠, LHO overcalled 3♣ partner doubled, intending it for take-out. We had not discussed this but I thought it was normal good bridge for a double of a pre-empt to be for penalties. As it happened it was the same auction with out team mates but the double here was for business (K9, KJ98, A54, A1097) We took the contract 1-off but worse that our opps who took it 2 off. Does anybody take a double of a weak 2 for take-out?

[Fluffy]

Double after 1M-1NT-(2x) has to be take out for any serious partnership.

[helene_t]

2♣ shows a fit so dbl is take-out.

Without the initial take-out dbl, a dbl of 2♣ would traditionally be penalty, but even then, the modern trend is take-out.

[flytoox]

Fluffy, on Aug 23 2005, 12:17 PM, said:

Double after 1M-1NT-(2x) has to be take out for any serious partnership.

This sequence is different. I think in your sequence, it is not unreasonable to play dbl as penalty. You are sitting behind and no signs shows they have a fit.


In the sequence given in the thread, I agree it is sensible to play dbl as takeout. The point is 2C, theoretically, should show a fit. Coz LHO SHOWed support for all unbid suit. Furthermore, 2C is volunteered, not forced. In this case, it is unlikely you have a good club suit.


A side point, I think North shuld pass dbl rather bid 1N. That hand is very defensive. And 1N wont play well with singleton spade.

[Fluffy]

Well flytoox I just don't take your point, if you double them in 2♦ jsut because you are behind, and you don't know if partner is void there you will hardly ever catch them, and they will make they doubled contracts more than you will get 500.

On the likelly event that you have 15-17 and no biddable suit at the 2 level what will you bid?

[flytoox]

I didnot say dbl Should be for penalty. I just say it is equally sensible to play dbl as penalty. After pd's 1N response to your 1M opening, he usually have cards/length in minor suits. If RHO's overcall is 2S, then I think it is far better to play dbl as t/o.

If you hold a 15-17 balanced hand, you can open 1N. If it is 4531, playing t/o wont do you any good. Pd is short in spade. Only if you are 3514 and RHO overcall 2D, takeout dbl will be better than penalty. If you are 3541 and RHO overcall 2C, you can just bid 2D rather than dbl.

The chance pd is void in one of minor after 1H-1N is extremely unlikely. As for ' they will make they doubled contracts more than you will get 500', it is more an empirical issue.

[Fluffy]

I think you are bypassing all the 5♠1♥ hands, and I don't really like to bid 2♦ with 17 HCP, if I can take advantage of my opps to avoid it.

[Winstonm]

I'm not fond of the 1N overcall - a bit light and the wrong shape. Perhaps a better start would have been.

1S-X-P-2C
P-2D-X-2H
P-P-X.

Now there is no doubt the doubles are strongly suggestive of penalizing.

Winston

[zasanya]

After 1♥-(dbl)-1NT Responder has already clarified his hand .So how can dbl of 2♣ be take out?Responder takes out in which suit?!h or !d which are presumably doubler's suits?
What is wrong with defining double of 2!c as penalty oriented showing !c values and better than minimum hand?

[flytoox]

Fluffy, on Aug 24 2005, 12:30 AM, said:

I think you are bypassing all the 5♠1♥ hands, and I don't really like to bid 2♦ with 17 HCP, if I can take advantage of my opps to avoid it.

No, I didnot by pass 5143 or 5134 with 1S opening and 2H overcall. In that sequence I agree with you it is better to play t/o dbl. This is why I say it is equally sensible to play either way. Of coz, for simplicity sake perhaps it is better to play same system and hence all dbl are t/o.

[jdeegan]

Jlall, on Aug 23 2005, 08:43 AM, said:

I would play X of 2C as takeout in that auction. It allows for a lot more flexibility.

I am curious. What sort of a hand would make a takeout double in this auction. Could you give a few examples?

[pigpenz]

i would pass and see what happens, sometimes good things happen when you know how to defend