[Dwingo]

cherdano, on Sep 10 2005, 09:30 PM, said:

I think it would be really really great if there wasn't only a website where you can download systems, conventions etc., but also a community site where you could upload these. (Maybe the forums could be used for this by allowing this file typ to be uploaded?)

I would like to share my Colours file with others. This woul dlike to use others file to check out if there are any other color schemes that I like

Fred, how much info can be input in the Description field?. If this fully populated, will it not obstruct too much of the screen, when we mouse over that bid on BBO bidding panel?

Or is there a plan to send the Description field as a private message to the Opps?

In the context of alerting, ( I think this was suggested elsewhere also) , after the bidding ends, I would like to see my partner's alerts in the bidding panel, movies and my hands

Godwin

[fred]

Dwingo, on Sep 11 2005, 01:52 AM, said:

cherdano, on Sep 10 2005, 09:30 PM, said:

I think it would be really really great if there wasn't only a website where you can download systems, conventions etc., but also a community site where you could upload these. (Maybe the forums could be used for this by allowing this file typ to be uploaded?)

I would like to share my Colours file with others. This woul dlike to use others file to check out if there are any other color schemes that I like

Fred, how much info can be input in the Description field?. If this fully populated, will it not obstruct too much of the screen, when we mouse over that bid on BBO bidding panel?

Or is there a plan to send the Description field as a private message to the Opps?

In the context of alerting, ( I think this was suggested elsewhere also) , after the bidding ends, I would like to see my partner's alerts in the bidding panel, movies and my hands

Godwin

I would like to see your colors - please send me your .ini file as an e-mail attachment.

I think I set a 500 characters limit on the description, but it would be easy for me to increase that limit if it turns out not to be enough. Yes, there may be formatting problems with long descriptions. That is something I will have to deal with eventually.

The basic plan is for players/kibitzers to receive copies of the system files in use at their tables. BBO will then be able to automatically display explanations of bids when those bids are made. The user will also have the ability to browse these files in order to find out about the meanings of bids that were not made. You will be able to find out what your partner's bids mean (or at least what they are supposed to mean according to your system file).

This is not exactly consistent with the Laws of bridge, but given that being able to look at your own convention card is already "normal" in online bridge, I am not too concerned about this. However, it may be necessary to introduce a table option that prevents people from looking at their own system files (at least directly through BBO - they will still be able to run FD as a standalone application if they want).

Most likely we will integrate the FD facility with the BBO Movie window, but I doubt that it will be integrated with myhands immediately.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

pigpenz, on Sep 11 2005, 01:43 AM, said:

another suggestion:
it would be nice if you could use the control shift keys to select a groups of bids that have the same meaning , or ven better if we could use the mouse.....
say for instance:
1NT pass
being able to select at the same time both 3♣/3♦ as invitational as an example

or say 1Major and all bids that would be a splinter, it would save alot of time and def make things easier.

Agree this would be nice, but for now this suggestion will have to stay in the "would be nice" category. I may try to implement this (and some other ideas for making data entry easier) toward the end of next week, but first I want to work with Uday to get the basic BBO integration set up.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[hrothgar]

fred, on Sep 11 2005, 06:09 PM, said:

The user will also have the ability to browse these files in order to find out about the meanings of bids that were not made. You will be able to find out what your partner's bids mean (or at least what they are supposed to mean according to your system file). This is not exactly consistent with the Laws of bridge, but given that being able to look at your own convention card is already "normal" in online bridge, I am not too concerned about this. However, it may be necessary to introduce a table option that prevents people from looking at their own system files (at least directly through BBO - they will still be able to run FD as a standalone application if they want).

Hi Fred

I think that the table server / tournament creator needs an option to disable the "cheat sheet" functionality provided by "Full Disclosure". Its fine an dandy to allow players to consult system notes during social play. Hell, I think that it should encouraged. However, facilitating this type of behaviour during "serious" events such as tournaments is a very different matter.

One issue that you might want to consider: While the Laws of Bridge ban the use of external aids, Bridge regulators often permit players to consult written defenses to the opponents Brown Sticker Conventions. In an ideal world, the system would be able to differentiate between defenses and constructive sequences.

Its certainly not necessary to support this in the first pass, however, its probably worth thinking about.

[inquiry]

I think, realistically richard, this is not going to work. As fred says, users can have their own "convention card" anyway, or stand alone FD, or detailed printed notes, or something like bid4bid. I always thought your "html" document (which you obviously have) would provide the same standalone functionality that FD will have... can fred issue something to keep you from accessing that (or your parnter).

Disabiling this feature would be nice (I too think memory is an important part of bridge), but Fred's approach is the partical one I think

[hrothgar]

inquiry, on Sep 11 2005, 06:33 PM, said:

I think, realistically richard, this is not going to work. As fred says, users can have their own "convention card" anyway, or stand alone FD, or detailed printed notes, or something like bid4bid. I always thought your "html" document (which you obviously have) would provide the same standalone functionality that FD will have... can fred issue something to keep you from accessing that (or your parnter).

Disabiling this feature would be nice (I too think memory is an important part of bridge), but Fred's approach is the partical one I think

Maybe I'm naive or an idealist, however, I see a big difference between recognizing that people might be using outside aides to memory and deliberately facilitating this. To streach and anology: People have access to AIM messengers and phones. Why doesn't the Birdge Base application allow me to have hidden communications with my partner during the auction?

More a more serious note: I still believe that major tournaments will eventually start bowing to the inevitable and making use of electronic playing environments. For example, I know that Paul Martsons Grand Slam bridge clubs have just replaces paper travellers with wireless scorepads...

Applications like Full Disclosure are blazing the trail.
However, we should recognize that said apps should be designed to comply with the rules of bridge...

[cherdano]

I think Fred's table option is exactly what you want, Richard. If this is set to have the cheat sheet disabled, then it is also clear to everyone who cares that running FD on the side is not fair game.

Anyone who doesn't care can still do it, but so be it.

Arend

[paulg]

The two "dispositions" I miss are RELAY and TRANSFER.

Paul

[fred]

cardsharp, on Sep 11 2005, 04:21 PM, said:

The two "dispositions" I miss are RELAY and TRANSFER.

Paul

You will have one.

I would just as soon not have to do this again, so if there are other suggestions for new "dispositions" please let me know

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[stev_hav]

fred, on Sep 11 2005, 04:53 PM, said:

cardsharp, on Sep 11 2005, 04:21 PM, said:

The two "dispositions" I miss are RELAY and TRANSFER.

Paul

You will have one.

I would just as soon not have to do this again, so if there are other suggestions for new "dispositions" please let me know

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

Assuming that you're planning to make "one last" revision to file structure and editor . .

At least for the immediate future, it appears that information such as playing strength, distributions, etc., will need to be recorded in the form of "comments". If so, it would seem desirable to provide for (at least one) "non-displayable" comment area. Retained on the file, but not (at least routinely) displayed to opponents.

Related, very-possibly desirable to implement some form of "alert" flag. Such that only specified values would result in any form of "self-alert" being displayed to opponents.

[hrothgar]

fred, on Sep 11 2005, 07:53 PM, said:

cardsharp, on Sep 11 2005, 04:21 PM, said:

The two "dispositions" I miss are RELAY and TRANSFER.

Paul

You will have one.

I would just as soon not have to do this again, so if there are other suggestions for new "dispositions" please let me know

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

Three additional suggestions:

1. If you're going to have invitational, forcing, and constructive then "preemptive" would also be useful

2. "Puppet" would be useful

3. As far as I can tell, I'm forced to select 1 (and only 1) disposition. There are some bids that really can't be described with any of the existing dispositions. Case in point: Consider a Precision type 1♣ opening bid... Worst comes to worst, I can say "Forcing", however, I'm not sure whether this is quite right. Similarly, I can describe a "standard" 1♠ opening as "constructive". When working with the editor, disposition seems most useful for responses rather than openings...

[mink]

It would be nice if I could select some disposition when defining pass, double or redouble. When I tried last time this was not yet possible, and "no agreement" was selected as the default.

I also have not figured out what the "copy" and "paste" buttons really do - I am quite sure that they do not do what I expect, and most time I tried I got the impression they simply do nothing. I wonder why nobody has asked this yet, or did I overlook the question?

It looks like that the "System name" is not stored into or retrieved from the bss file - it is always empty when I load it, while the system summary is stored.

Karl

[Free]

When I want to define different meanings to openings in 1&2 seat and openings in 3&4 seat, it seems not possible. When I've inserted 1&2 seat system, and I select "3 or 4" for the seats, I still get the explanations for 1&2 seat. When I change these, my 1&2 seat system is also adjusted...

How should this be done?

[badderzboy]

I seem to be having a little trouble with 1.0.6.

After closing and re-opening the application the newly input bids are not displaying whilst they are in the .BSS file.

I have noticed that the definition is now appearing in the viewer for each bid and in the .BSS file in {} brackets for each step bid. eg.

001C{Std English ACOL }P1D{Std English ACOL }P1H{Std English ACOL }P2C=NYYYYYY0386-9 HCP Preference

I have a backup so not toooo worried but is it just me?

Pt2 - took out the spurious {} and re-installed and now seems ok maybe just a dodgy install

Thanks

Steve

[barmar]

[quote name='cherdano' date='Sep 10 2005, 11:00 AM'] [quote name='fred' date='Sep 4 2005, 04:40 PM'] Further up the thread you talked about creating files together in an open source spirit. Open source always works MUCH better when it is very easy for people to get involved. If they just can easily put up their favourite pet convention somewhere for other people to download, they may do it. Or they may have created their own "BBO adv but no Cappelletti" from the "official" BBO adv system description, and put it up for others to share. [/quote]
I haven't used them yet myself, but from what I've heard this sounds like a good use for a Wiki.

[fred]

badderzboy, on Sep 12 2005, 08:10 AM, said:

I seem to be having a little trouble with 1.0.6.

After closing and re-opening the application the newly input bids are not displaying whilst they are in the .BSS file.

I have noticed that the definition is now appearing in the viewer for each bid and in the .BSS file in {} brackets for each step bid. eg.

001C{Std English ACOL }P1D{Std English ACOL }P1H{Std English ACOL }P2C=NYYYYYY0386-9 HCP Preference

I have a backup so not toooo worried but is it just me?

Pt2 - took out the spurious {} and re-installed and now seems ok maybe just a dodgy install

Thanks

Steve

I think the extra stuff in { } is an artifact of an earlier bug.

Now that your file is clean and now that you have 1.0.6, if you see it happen again, please let me know.

Thanks,

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[fred]

Free, on Sep 11 2005, 07:51 PM, said:

When I want to define different meanings to openings in 1&2 seat and openings in 3&4 seat, it seems not possible. When I've inserted 1&2 seat system, and I select "3 or 4" for the seats, I still get the explanations for 1&2 seat. When I change these, my 1&2 seat system is also adjusted...

How should this be done?

Sorry - I have made this more complicated than it has to be. Here is the easiest way to do this (for now). I am assuming you are starting with an empty file, but if you are not I suspect you will be able to work out what to do from what follows:

1. Set dealer to 1&2
2. Click 1NT
3. Define 1NT (as you play it in 1st/2nd), but do not go back "up"
4. Change dealer to 3&4
5. Define 1NT (as you play it in 3rd/4th)

I will make this easier at some point. Sorry about the inconvenience. Obviously you should be able to change the dealer at the "top level", then click 1NT, and have it work even if you have already defined a variation of 1NT.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[cherdano]

barmar, on Sep 12 2005, 07:43 PM, said:

cherdano, on Sep 10 2005, 11:00 AM, said:

Further up the thread you talked about creating files together in an open source spirit. Open source always works MUCH better when it is very easy for people to get involved. If they just can easily put up their favourite pet convention somewhere for other people to download, they may do it. Or they may have created their own "BBO adv but no Cappelletti" from the "official" BBO adv system description, and put it up for others to share.

I haven't used them yet myself, but from what I've heard this sounds like a good use for a Wiki.

Yes, I think a Wiki with the ability to upload system files would be great.
Offtopic: A wiki would be great anyway as a place to save some of the gems of the discussions here (e.g. the riton discussion), plus a place for FAQ etc. -- but that would obviously be a bigger project. I think a bridge wiki is a gap in the otherwise pretty rich bridge online resources. Have a look at the canonical go wiki, Sensei's Library, to see what I mean.

Arend

[stev_hav]

I've begun attempting to develop an actual system file.

Have begun by recording 1c and 1d openings, followed by uncontested auctions, assuming use of "BBO Standard - Basic".

I have completed recording of the apparently-higher-frequency sequences; suit and NT responses, continuing thru the game level. Also some, but fewer than all, of the higher-frequency slam-try sequences.

If there were some convenient place to post what I've developed to date, I would like to do so.

[cherdano]

This may sound trivial or pedantic but I think it may well confuse may users with limited computer skills: if I click "Save As", the system file is by default saved under the "My Documents" folder. But if I click "Open", it opens the Full Disclosure folder.
(Windows XP)

Arend