[luke warm]

mike asked ben about this, probably for the same reason i would have - several of the #5 hands could use such a bid... anyway, why don't we get some opinions on a good way to bid long/short suit tries? i'll start with a vote for kokish... i like it because either player can use it, for example 1c - 1h - 2h or 1d - 1s - 1nt - 2c - 2s, for example

to refresh you, kokish is this... the next possible bid is a long suit try and asks responder (opener) to bid the first suit up the line in which he'd accept a game try... that usually means K 4th bit judgement is allowed (for example, bidding a stiff or void is more than possible)

any bid but the ranking bid is a short suit try, asking responder (opener) to bid game with no wasted values...

[han]

I prefer something similar:

Cheapest step asks reponder to bid the cheapest suit in which he would NOT accept a short game try. 3M says reject all short suit game tries, higher bids say accept all. I think short suit game tries often help the defense, and this way they keep hidden. Also, responder shows a suit in which he has values, which can help opener even if he doesn't have a short suit.

Other bids are natural (help suit if you wish) game tries.


I think that the auction 1C-1H-2H is a whole different animal, as one of the most important issues is whether responder has 3 or 4 card support (except for Fluffy of course).

[cherdano]

I also like long/short suit game tries, but I would prefer to keep BBO adv simple and omit gadgets like this. It's not like natural bidding (long suit game tries) is hugely inferior here.

Arend

[helene_t]

The disadvantage of simple help (or whatever) suit trials is that they disclose opener's holding. So it's better to let the next available bid asks for some kind of feature. Kokish sounds good, too.

On the other hand, I like to keep things simple. So simple short suit trials are fine, too.

[luke warm]

Hannie, on Sep 15 2005, 10:53 PM, said:

I think that the auction 1C-1H-2H is a whole different animal, as one of the most important issues is whether responder has 3 or 4 card support (except for Fluffy of course).

remember tho, responder would presumeably not make a game try with fewer than 5 hearts on this auction, unless opener's 2H bid guarantees 4 hearts.. playing kokish (or something similar), responder can ask or tell

[han]

I agree that it is probably best not to add more conventions. We can assume "natural" bidding when voting for the poll, and then discuss later what the best way to bid would be. Also, it is always interesting to see which conventions are considered standard in different parts of the world.

I'm not sure I understand your last comment young Skywalker, responder is unlimited in the auction 1C-1H-2H and may very well try for game with less than 5 hearts.

[luke warm]

that's true, he might have a great hand with 4 hearts... but he can still bid the ranking suit to hear what opener has to say... anyway, it's just a thought

[skorchev]

What I play:

1st way:
(1.) 1m-1♥-2♥-2♠
(2.) 1m-1♠-2♠-2NT
(3.) 1♥-2♥-2♠
(4.) 1♠-2♠-2NT

The last bid shows game try in long suit, it shows usually more points than distribution. The short-suit invites are with less points, more distribution. In (1.) and (3.) 2NT instead of 2♠ shows shortness in ♠s.

2nd way:
Everything is the same, the only difference is that the next possible bid shows shortness, and the other bids are showing invites with long suits.

Skorchev