[mikestar]

hrothgar, on Jan 13 2004, 05:12 PM, said:

mikestar, on Jan 13 2004, 08:00 PM, said:

... Most of the problems with opening 1C with 16 balanced come about because of the GF positives on 8 counts. Wei originally made provision for stopping short of game when 16 opposite 8. No one uses this now, it's much easier to make positives GF, but in that case, a positive should require 9 points.

Note:

As usual, I think that MOSCITO provides some very interesting ideas on this front.
In particular, "modern" versions of the system are designed to immediately clarify semi-positives after the strong club opening.

MOSCITO uses 1C - 1S to show a double negative
1C - 1D and 1C - 2N+ show game forcing hands

All other bids show semi-positives
In turn, this allows us to support a considerably weaker "strong" club opening without completely overloading the 1D response.

Using 1H+ as an absolute game force is fine for "conservative" strong club structures, but I fear its utility is limited with modern aggressive systems.

Good point. I have nothing against semi-positives. What I am opposed to is GF positives that aren't strong enough. Perhaps a scale of responses that distinguish 0-4, 5-8, 9-12, and 13+ could be worked out.

[hrothgar]

Comment 1: I agree that it is good to have an opening to show both majors, however, my prefered preemptive structure opens 2H to show
4+ Hearts and (4+ Spades or 5+ Clubs)

Here is a summary description of the response structure over 2D.
Its a bit complicated since I wanted to be able to invite game in either major without bypassing 3D. For example, if responder wants to invite game in Hearts but play 3D opposite spades he can bid an immediate 3C

After 2D = 4+ Diamonds and 4+ cards in either major

3H = Pass or COrrect

3D = Preemptive DIamond Raise

3C = Asking bid: Opener will clarify his Heart holding and then strength

4H = 6 Hearts, maximum hand
4m = 6 Hearts, maximum hand, 1st/2nd round control in the bid minor
3N = 5 Hearts, maximum hand
3S = 4 Hearts and a maximum hand
3H = Hearts and a minimum
3D = Spades and Diamonds

2N = Relay for shape/range

3N = 6 Hearts and a maximum
3S = 5 Hearts and a maximum
3H = 4 hearts and a maximum
3D = Minimum hand
3C = Spades and a maximum

2S = Puppet to 2N and then

3S = Invite with long Spades
3H = Invite with lng Hearts
3D = Asking bid (Opener pases with Hearts and zooms with Spades)
3C = To play

2H = Pass or correct

[mikestar]

Jlall, on Jan 15 2004, 10:55 PM, said:

...  if playing 12-15, what is 1D p 1M p 1N? 9-11? lol usually need 2 ranges under your strong club, one for delayed 1N, one for 1N opener...

The beauty of the 12-15 range is that you don't need 2 ranges under 1C, with 11 or less balance you pass. This leaves 1D-1M-1N free for other purposes. A natural meaning would be a hand playable in NT after the response, but flawed for a 1NT opening. For example 5-4 in the minors and a stiff honor in partner's suit.

Various artificial possibilites exist. I've used:

1D-1H-1NT = 3 card heart raise (may be weak or strong like a support double)
1D-1S-1NT = 3 card spade raise OR 4 hearts and not enough strength to reverse.

[mishovnbg]

........................................Hi Luis!....................................
Congratulations for finding new partner! Bulgarian's joke about it is harder than wife . Several advices to your new partnership friend:
1. The most important: keep things simple at beginning and most natural as possible!!! The few of people are capabale to wait years to win. Regular loses because of complex system may ruine your partnership.
2. The best system is the system which your parter already know. Make the large interview (some internet sites can help about) what he exactly play in most common situations - bids after 3th/4th suit, game/slam tries, intervention after opening, after response with dbl/suit/2suiter, after conventional bids like transfers/4th suit, stayman and dbl from opps.... Make results of this interview the base of your system. Can modify it of course, if there are things, with which you can't live - explain to your partner why and remember it to him before each session at least during year . This is only sure way I know for fast win Luis! Of course you may prefer to enjoy nice system, instead of nice partership .
3. Do not spend much time about bidding after 1NT opening. You may be notice already that near half of any system are conventions after 1NT opening. Natural 1NT eat too much space and you will never find good solution. Live with this and don't lose neurves and memory for 0.01% advantages .
4. If you decide to play precision, don't try to improve 1♣ opening. 1♣ is bad opening and will remain same forever. Instead of improving 1♣, improve all other bids. Don't use complicate responses and continuations after 1♣ opening, because in real life you will use them very rare due to opps intervention. Basically you need only 2 very important agreement after 1♣ opening:

• How opener show different type of strong hand after negative
  
• how responder show 12+HCP(slam interest)

5. The competitive bidding is too complex for clear agreements. Only way to improve your partenship bidding in competition is to have general agreements and earn experience from mistakes. My advice is to read Robson&Segal "Partnersip bidding", both you and your partner and use exactly what they suggest. You will probably modify it, but do this later, after some experience with partner.

I will be happy friend, if some of my thoughts can help you. Misho

[MickyB]

luis, on Jan 12 2004, 01:03 PM, said:

I have a new pd for the 2004 season and I hope that for the next seasons as well. We have outlined the basics of a very simple system and I'd like to know what would you add to the system, what do you think it's very important and we are forgetting ? Do you have experience with such a system?

1c: 16+ any
1d: Precision style 11-15
1h/1s: 5+ 11-15
1N: 12-15 balanced no 5M
2c: Precision 11-15
2d: Weak 2 in a major
2h/2s: Muirderberg 5 in the major 4 in a minor (2s can be s+h)
2n: 8-11 5/4 in the minors

Over 1M we play forcing NT and 2/1 GF, a 2c 2/1 bid may be balanced without a 5 card suit to bid or game forcing with clubs.

Over 1c we bid 1d as 0-7 1h,1s,1n,2c,2d are TRANSFERS *1s balanced* and 8+
After 1c-1d 1h is a power relay 20+HCP others 16-19.

Any ideas will be considered

Hey Luis,

The forum archives have distracted me from an all-night cramming session on Differential Equations! Your system caught my eye, it is very similar to what I'm hoping to play with my new partner (partly as a stepping stone for me from natural-ish systems to Moscito). Has this worked out ok for you? What did you settle on finally? My current plan is this...

1♣: 16+any, 1D negative, transfer positives with symmetric relays. We are planning on skipping the 1C:1D, 1H relays and the more complex semi-positives relay structure for now due to memory load. Also, while the 1C:1D art GF with transfer semi-positives scheme is vital for a 15+ club, I should imagine it is less of an improvement opposite a 16+ club?

The problem of reaching bal 16 opp 8 games - firstly, I have no objection to a 24 point 3NT, but that may be partly being used to partnering an excellent declarer. Secondly, my main concern is not facing a bal 16, but facing a misfitting 16, which a higher NT range won't solve.

1♦: 11-15 4+cards. We really wanted a natural 1♦ opener, so that forced us into a 12-15 NT. 4441s and hands with 5C4D have to be opened 1♦, which would work out at about 25% of all 1D openers, I believe, if no other hands were included other than unbal primary diamonds. This is really too much to consider it as a 5 card opener, so I decided we may as well open 1♦ on 11-13 bal with 4-5♦s.

1♥/1♠: 2/1 GF, so needs to be fairly sound to make use of the structure - 11-15 points.

1NT: 12-15, with some pressure taken off by opening 1♦ 11-13 bal with 4♦s. Keri in response to allow us to invite and still play 2♥/2♠. I'm considering a slight modification to allow us to play 3♣ after a declined invite, without emphasising the clubs when inviting - If partner declines he won't have 4♦s, so he will have 3+♣s unless exactly 4-4-3-2.

2♣: 5♣4major or 6+♣.

2♦: Multi (either just a weak 2 in either major, or weak or strong in either major, haven't decided which).

2♥/♠: Dutch, 5major4minor. This way, any good 6-10 with a 5 card major can open if desired, releasing the pressure on the 1major openers. The exception is major 2 suiters, they will have to open a little lighter hoping for a fit, or pass and come in later.

2NT: Preempt, 6+ minor not suitable for 3♦. Again could be made wk or strong.

3♣: Preempt, 5-5 minors.

3♦: 7-10, 6+♦s, two top honours.

[Fluffy]

Here are some interesting level 3 openings, sadly they are forbidden in many countries:

2NT= barrage in either minor
3♣= minors
3♦= barrage in either major
3♥= both majors
3♠= ANY AKQJ headed 7+ card suit without any card outside (to rightside the gabling 3NT)
3NT= bad suit preemtive in a minor (about KJ10 8th)
4♣/♦= namyats ( or southafrican texas or as you wanna call it).

[MickyB]

Fluffy, on Jun 5 2004, 06:32 AM, said:

Here are some interesting level 3 openings, sadly they are forbidden in many countries:

2NT= barrage in either minor
3♣= minors
3♦= barrage in either major
3♥= both majors
3♠= ANY AKQJ headed 7+ card suit without any card outside (to rightside the gabling 3NT)
3NT= bad suit preemtive in a minor (about KJ10 8th)
4♣/♦= namyats ( or southafrican texas or as you wanna call it).

Yes, they are certainly interesting! I've played them a bit. The 3♥ bid is worse than useless, any suggestions for that are gratefully received! It might work to split the solid minor and solid major hands between 3♥ and 3♠, but that makes it even less legal

[Mr_Sock]

Back to the 2-level openings, I'd recommend something like the Frelling 2D opening. If you want an opening to show both majors, i think it is far superior to use 2H than 2D. 2H is natural and passable, and should put more pressure on opponents.

If you use 2D to show both majors, your LHO can assign different meanings to {immediate double}, {delayed double}, {2H cue}, {2s cue}, {direct 2NT}, {delayed 2NT}. The immediate double is a particular killer, giving opponents a good chance to penalise you in a misfit 2M contract.

If you use 2H to show both majors, your LHO has to take immediate action with a good hand.

You may complain that you like the traditional 2H opener, with a 6-card single-suiter. Actually it's pretty rare, not particularly effective, and you could get away with opening those hands at the 3-level NV.

Alternatively, play a multi 2D, play 2H with both majors, and use 2S Lucas style.

Ben

[mr1303]

Quote

The problem of reaching bal 16 opp 8 games - firstly, I have no objection to a 24 point 3NT, but that may be partly being used to partnering an excellent declarer.

Hmmm. I'm Mike's new partner for this year. The pressure's definitely on now