[Al_U_Card]

Scoring: MP

p 4♦ p p
4♠ p p 5♦
p p ???

East hesitated before both of his calls.

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F2F, local club game with the "best" field of the week. First hand out of the box and....yup, wtf is going on?

What does pard hold and what should you do?

[Apollo81]

I'd just pass. This is probably the wrong double dummy action. It sounds like:

- partner's hand may open 2♠ at other tables
- failing that, LHO's hand may raise to 5♦ at other tables on the first round

In both cases defending 5♦ undoubled seems normalish.

[gwnn]

this is a shocking sequence.

i'd bid 5♠, not to miss the party.

[Fluffy]

We have double fit, so 5♠.

[whereagles]

Pard should have a goodish 10-11 points and that makes it our hand.

Dbl.

[Al_U_Card]

Scoring: MP

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Here is pard's hand. Can it be bid in first seat, and if so, how?

The expectation was for a hand that couldn't open 1S in first seat but was freakish enough to risk the 4 level red vs. white......is this a reasonable hand to expect for the bids as shown?...

[pclayton]

I'd pass too. Sure, pard has some kind of flawed preempt for the back-in 4♠, but I'm not expecting an 8 bagger, although maybe I should looking at A-K-J.

[jdonn]

I would have doubled for sure, to me partner has a normal 3♠ opening bid except without a good enough suit vul. On his actual hand I think passing as dealer is absurd. I would expect maybe Qxxxxxx Qx x Axx where our expectation is probably down 1 or 2. If they make, I think I was not getting a good board at mps either way.

[han]

I think it is important to know more about partner's preempt style.

[the hog]

You say this was a "local club game", but I assume the game played was not bridge. Partner's "bidding" says, "I don't want to play with you anymore."

[Foxx]

Hmm, people have a variety of approaches to dealing with hands like the South hand. Some people find climbing to 4♠ too rich at unfavorable, but in that case I don't see why it wouldn't be perfectly fine to bid 3♠. Others favor the "Pass and Back In" method, like what was chosen at the table. That's the route I tend to prefer myself..... when playing poker, that is.

I would open the South hand 4♠ in first seat, vulnerability and all, and raise to 5♠ with the North hand on the actual auction. These moves could work well here, with 5♦ a make and 5♠ rarely down more than one (we can pick up West's ♥K(x) or ♥Q(x)).

[helene_t]

Al_U_Card, on May 17 2007, 09:05 PM, said:

Here is pard's hand.  Can it be bid in first seat, and if so, how? 

The expectation was for a hand that couldn't open 1S in first seat but was freakish enough to risk the 4 level red vs. white......is this a reasonable hand to expect for the bids as shown?...

4♠ or 3♠. You don't pass just because you can't find the 3-and-a-half-spade card in the bidding box. Pass-then-4♠ suggests that he has a two-suiter and you don't play Wilcoz or Muiderberg.

I think Ron exaggerates a little, though.

[ochinko]

Partner is either a beginner or completely drunk to push opps to a game or even a possible slam at unfavorable vulnerability. He missed his chance to open 3/4♠, now the best he could do is pass.

I can only imagine his hand as having six spades and five hearts with values below opening. Any other hand would have bid when it had the chance.

Now it seems that my best call is pass, because 5♥ would hardly cost less than -500 or worse, opps would go to slam now and make it too.

[gwnn]

On a more serious note.

Partner should think 4♠ is (at least) a good sacrifice vs their 130/150. That means he thinks 4♠ is a make or that it will be down 1 but it won't be doubled often enough. In this case, where partner expects to score 9.5 tricks opposite a random 2434 9 count, 5♠ sounds like a good bet.

Of course my first thought was a 2-suiter. Coming in on the 4 level hasn't become safer just because he's "balancing". Quite the opposite.

[Fluffy]

helene_t, on May 18 2007, 04:38 AM, said:

4♠ or 3♠. You don't pass just because you can't find the 3-and-a-half-spade card in the bidding box

I know of a couple of old ladies in my local who have a way to show 3 and a half bids

[whereagles]

wtf pard has 8 spades and he passes?

I know people that bid like that.. I think I should be told pard is that sort of person

[P_Marlowe]

Al_U_Card, on May 17 2007, 02:05 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

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Here is pard's hand. Can it be bid in first seat, and if so, how?

The expectation was for a hand that couldn't open 1S in first seat but was freakish enough to risk the 4 level red vs. white......is this a reasonable hand to expect for the bids as shown?...

Hi,

given the vul. I would have opened 3S
and be done with it.
If you dont like 3S, open 4S.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Al_U_Card]

As always, informed and enlightened opinion. Style questions aside, fielding bids is kind of a scientific art.....lol. Thanks for the info.

[ochinko]

Al_U_Card, on May 18 2007, 06:52 PM, said:

As always, informed and enlightened opinion.  Style questions aside, fielding bids is kind of a scientific art.....lol.  Thanks for the info.

I've been there - fighting against a minor part score with a late bid with what I saw as a decent distribution. Defending -130 and getting -800 instead is very humiliating, even at MP.

[Al_U_Card]

Here is the tally across the section

.. 0 . ... 6 . .. 3 .. .. 4-.. . 4- .. . 1 . . 7 . . 2
-920 -170 -500 -420 -420 -800 620 -650

So 5D doubled making 6 for 650 gave us 2 out of 8
All that play D make 6 so -420 for the pass gets 4-
and 5S likely doubled goes for down 2 (3/8) or down 3 for 1/8

So passing throughout by South and letting them play 4D making 6 gets 6/8

I guess the pair that let them play 4S undoubled didnt know how to set it either....