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Can I reverse?

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 09:19


Dealer: South
Vul: EW
Scoring: IMP
6
T52
AKT2
AKJ75


West North East South

 -     -     -     1
 1    1    Pass  ?
  


2 now? I hate to pass. :) The xxx are bad and Im not sure how to evaluate the stiff
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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#2 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 09:46

2D.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#3 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 09:48

I would have opened 1
Alderaan delenda est
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#4 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 09:50

2.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#5 User is offline   sceptic 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 10:10

I thought this was in your 1nt range opener Jilly :) why did you open 1 club :)
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#6 User is offline   ralph23 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 10:23

Too light to reverse by my standards. Not everyone plays it as "strong" but we do.

You can solve this problem by your opening bid, however; don't open 1 with 4 and 5 and a hand too light to reverse. Save yourself the agony of having to make this decision and anticipate the problem (you know that p will bid 1M :) ).

Open 1. I.e. bid like you had 4-4 or 5-4 or 5-5. Now you can easily rebid 2. You will rarely get into much trouble with this mild lie, and partners are used to it, anyhow.
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#7 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 10:32

2. I don't dislike being required to do this.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#8 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 10:39

You're a little light for a reverse here. Just rebid 2 - that's not a bad thing. :P
Kind regards,
Harald
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#9 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 11:05

I'm with the 1 openers. :P
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#10 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 11:23

This offensively oriented and very pure 15 HCP hand with a bonus Ten in my fine 4 card suit is just good enough for me to open 1 with the plan of reversing 2.
K&R hand evaluator rates hands based on offensive merit, in general (sort of like Zars ?!) and says this is worth 18.95 ! I'll plan to reverse on this hand and consider it a min. and note that I have methods to stop at 3 of either minor if PD is min. Without some way to stop at 3m, reversing this hand will often get overboard.
For those who use Zars, how many Zars is this hand worth ?

Now...consider the bidding so far. Has the opp 1 overcall helped your hand ? I don't think so when you hold 3 small. Has PD's 1 bid (5+ for me after a 1 o/c) helped your hand ? I don't think so.

So..this hand could be a missfit and note that advancer passed, and may not have much H support for overcaller, so PD could have some cards in . There's a good chance of a missfit here and 3 losers or two losers and a ruff off the top.
It looks like the bidding so far had downgraded you hand a bit so fall back on the option to rebid a very fine 5 card suit.

2 for me, noting that I consider myself max for that action.

Once again, had there been to o/c I'd reverse 2 and consider this a min for that action, but here the fact that PD has 5+ and I think we have at least a couple losers pushes me to caution.

Note that if I had a scattered 15 HCP with a mediocre 5 card suit and 4 decent 's I'd have opened the hand 1 and rebid 2 since said hand is not a reverse and I don't want to rebid mediocre 5 card suits. I also don't want to rebid 1NT over 1 with a stiff in PD's suit if I can avoid it, nor with 15 HCP (playing 15-17 NT)

Just my opinions..and not expecting much agreement as some just count HCP and length when they bid and don't consider suit strengths or things like having all 15 HCP in your two long suits.. neilkaz ..
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#11 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 11:42

blackshoe, on Aug 5 2007, 12:05 PM, said:

I'm with the 1 openers. :P

Can you ever convince PD that you have 5 good here after opening 1? I find that I cannot and then we have issues in part score contracts and have even played the wrong minor game or slam.

So...for me..

x
ATx
KQxx
K9xxx

Open 1 as I am opening and rebidding with a trashy 5 card suit. I don't want to rebid 1NT with a stiff after 1, and with my ace of , a stiff and 3 card support, I'll raise 1 to 2. If PD takes a pref to in the auction after my 2 rebid, at least I have two nice honors in .

Now give me

x
ATx
Jxxx
AKJxx

I'll open 1 and raise 1 to 2 and rebid 2 with my fine 5 carder after 1. If I open 1 and rebid 2 and PD takes a pref to I may be quite unhappy if PD has 3 cards opposite my Jxxx. If I am passed out in 2 and PD has xx, I am not that unhappy due to my fine suit. If PD competes to 3 on xxx, once again, I have a fine suit for the 5-3 fit.

Note that I really don't care for Walsh responses so PD is not bidding 1M after 1 with a 5 card suit and 4 cards in the major. I also open 1C rather than 1 with all 44 m hands except those with a stiff (since I don't want to rebid 1NT with a stiff).

This is not current mainstream American, but it is my style.

Interesting stuff in this thread and an interesting constrast in styles.

.. neilkaz ..
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#12 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 12:39

I hate opening this hand 1. I really dislike reversing this hand if partner's suit is spades. I don't like rebidding 1-1x-2. I am fine reversing with this hand if partner's suit is hearts.

So in other words, I would open 1, planning to reverse if partner shows hearts, and rebidding 2 if partner shows spades.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#13 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 12:46

cherdano, on Aug 5 2007, 01:39 PM, said:

I hate opening this hand 1. I really dislike reversing this hand if partner's suit is spades. I don't like rebidding 1-1x-2. I am fine reversing with this hand if partner's suit is hearts.

So in other words, I would open 1, planning to reverse if partner shows hearts, and rebidding 2 if partner shows spades.

Arend, this is certainly a very reasonable action, and it is nice to be dealt a hand with options like this. By not reversing after 1 you nicely follow the general guideline to be cautious in the face of a likely missfit.
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#14 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2007-August-05, 13:08

definitely dont reverse.

This is in the 1 % of 4-5 hands that I would open 1D with since I refuse to bid 1C-2C, and my usual procedure of rebidding 1N with a stiff will not work with a good 15 count and the honor structure is terrible to consider opening 1N, thus...
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#15 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 14:04

What would a double show? A fourcard in the unbid suit, or 3-card support? In both cases you have it. If double is penalty, least of evil is 2 I think. Reverse is problematic because p may take preference to clubs with a doubleton while you have a 5-3 fit in hearts. and if you then bid 3 then you're showing a GF hand. (And also this hand is simply not strong enough for a reverse, you don't want p to bid 3N with his 4432 and 8 HCPs).

Having read Justin's post I'm becoming more sympathic to a 1 opening but in practice it would not have occurred to me to open 1.
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#16 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 14:13

It seems opening 1D and rebidding 2clubs should work out ok very often.
You are well within your hcp range and you are only one d short.
Rebidding a new suit even hints at more than minumum values.
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#17 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 14:19

helene_t, on Aug 5 2007, 01:04 PM, said:

What would a double show? A fourcard in the unbid suit, or 3-card support? In both cases you have it. If double is penalty, least of evil is 2 I think. Reverse is problematic because p may take preference to clubs with a doubleton while you have a 5-3 fit in hearts. and if you then bid 3 then you're showing a GF hand. (And also this hand is simply not strong enough for a reverse, you don't want p to bid 3N with his 4432 and 8 HCPs).

My p bid
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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#18 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 14:55

Remembering an old post, wich calculated many boards at double dummy, I think worse distributions towards game were 22(4-5), (2-3)44 and next (1-3)(4-5), I think this hand is worth a reverse if you have a major, but game with minors is not quite good. That's why I would rather open 1.

Specially afetr partner bids your singleton, hand is even worse, now I would for sure bid 2 wich shows only 5+ to me (and could have 4 hearts).
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#19 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 15:12

helene_t, on Aug 5 2007, 10:04 PM, said:

What would a double show?

You're normally not allowed to double your partner.
I know it could be nice on occasion.... :D
Kind regards,
Harald
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#20 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2007-August-05, 15:37

Thanks for the responses, I especially like fluffys analysis of the xx45 hands.
I would have been better opening 1nt :D

I did reverse and it was a disaster, not sure that I am completely to blame though.


Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     -     1
 1    1    Pass  2
 Pass  3    Pass  4
 Pass  Pass  Dbl   Pass
 Pass  RDbl  Pass  Pass
 Pass  

"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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