Cayne vs Madoff any difference?
#21
Posted 2009-March-20, 10:44
Edit: When is Chuck Norris going to weigh in on this mess?
#22
Posted 2009-March-20, 10:50
y66, on Mar 20 2009, 11:44 AM, said:
Edit: When is Chuck Norris going to weigh in on this mess?
We do not use "blown" in a sentance containing those two names
#23
Posted 2009-March-20, 13:12
Quote
Well....this one I have to go against the field. I do not believe that discussing a fellow player can come to ANY good, regardless of the situation. The concept of "ZERO Tolerance" should extend beyond the limits of the table. Would you consider acting like a fool in the lobby of an event? I think not....therefore the same should happen here in our forum.
I'll have to check with NewSpeak and the Ministry of Truth before I respond.
#24
Posted 2009-March-20, 13:19
#25
Posted 2009-March-20, 21:53
They are both public figures helming companies that control a lot of money. But they're hardly alike. Cayne built Bears up, and was really just doing what almost everyone else was doing, by most accounts. Madoff knew his company was a pyramid scheme, and tried to milked it even more at the end when he knowingly tried to give out bonuses early and transfer assets to his wife.
I think I read somewhere that Cayne tried his best to pay as much debt as he could towards the end, and he went down with the ship instead of focusing on negotiating wonderful bonuses to be paid out somehow. That's old school. I find it rather admirable.
John Nelson.
#26
Posted 2009-March-20, 22:44
Winstonm, on Mar 20 2009, 02:12 PM, said:
Quote
Well....this one I have to go against the field. I do not believe that discussing a fellow player can come to ANY good, regardless of the situation. The concept of "ZERO Tolerance" should extend beyond the limits of the table. Would you consider acting like a fool in the lobby of an event? I think not....therefore the same should happen here in our forum.
I'll have to check with NewSpeak and the Ministry of Truth before I respond.
My contact at the ministry of silly walks said jon was wrong.
#27
Posted 2009-March-21, 02:18
John Nelson.
#28
Posted 2009-March-21, 07:08
"Corporate America". Yup, cool informal phrase. I am told less cut throat there. Hmm, really sorry but I dont think there's a room for amateurs in the history of finance world anywhere in this planet.
ps. I will visit NY. Have a Turkish younghood friend, very good educated in US. Later on married with an American Lady. I wonder Manhattan Island where they live.
#29
Posted 2009-March-21, 11:19
#30
Posted 2009-March-21, 23:50
matmat, on Mar 21 2009, 06:44 AM, said:
Winstonm, on Mar 20 2009, 02:12 PM, said:
Quote
Well....this one I have to go against the field. I do not believe that discussing a fellow player can come to ANY good, regardless of the situation. The concept of "ZERO Tolerance" should extend beyond the limits of the table. Would you consider acting like a fool in the lobby of an event? I think not....therefore the same should happen here in our forum.
I'll have to check with NewSpeak and the Ministry of Truth before I respond.
My contact at the ministry of silly walks said jon was wrong.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/370230/monty...of_silly_walks/
You scored another absurd thread "tamtam".
#31
Posted 2009-March-22, 09:45
Rain, on Mar 20 2009, 10:53 PM, said:
They are both public figures helming companies that control a lot of money. But they're hardly alike. Cayne built Bears up, and was really just doing what almost everyone else was doing, by most accounts. Madoff knew his company was a pyramid scheme, and tried to milked it even more at the end when he knowingly tried to give out bonuses early and transfer assets to his wife.
I think I read somewhere that Cayne tried his best to pay as much debt as he could towards the end, and he went down with the ship instead of focusing on negotiating wonderful bonuses to be paid out somehow. That's old school. I find it rather admirable.
Let me take a shot at non-sarcasm here. I have not read House of Cards but there is a review in today's Post. Here is an item from the review:
Apparently when LTCM was crashing in 1998 Cayne kept Bear out of a broad Wall Street effort to stave off disaster and bragged about his wisdom. When Bear was in trouble, Wall Street leaders remembered this. For this and other reasons, people were not trying very hard to think of ways to help the man out of a jam.
Madoff's actions were illegal, Cayne's were not. A very big difference. If Cayne ran a string of local auto supply stores his aggressive adherence to watching out for himself first, foremost, and exclusively need not concern us. Since he ran a company that was "too big to fail" then it is our business as well. Life would be simpler if no company was too big to fail but alas, we are told that this is not the way things are. We now see ourselves struggling with what to do about a flock of companies that somehow cannot be left to sink into deserved oblivion. Often this appears to require giving massive financial support while tightly holding our noses. Not a happy time.
Anyway, I don't really consider Madoff interesting. He ripped of some suckers who apparently were serenely uninterested in questions about how he could create large returns, he got caught, whatever happens next will happen. Nor do I consider the specific persona of Cayne all that interesting. I doubt that his approach was unique. The issue we must concern ourselves with is how to handle the "too big to fail" escape clause that many corporations now invoke. Personally, I am coming around to saying screw it, let's let them go under and see what happens, which I guess was Cayne's approach with LTCM. Probably it's best that I am not making binding decisions on these matters.
#32
Posted 2009-March-22, 10:07
#33
Posted 2009-March-22, 11:24
That's largely my view of all these guys: Might do them some good to try working for a living. A Cultural Revolution right here in the USA.