[Winstonm]

Quote

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil," Palin wrote

[luke warm]

what is she talking about?

[hrothgar]

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 04:56 PM, said:

what is she talking about?

There is a concerted disinformation campaign coming from the right wing to misrepresent health care reform.

One of the of the more prevalent meme is the claim that government officials are going to start euthanizing people once the hit the age of 22.

Sarah Palin is one of a small band of runners who are fighting against this oppressive system.

[Winstonm]

hrothgar, on Aug 8 2009, 08:59 AM, said:

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 04:56 PM, said:

what is she talking about?

There is a concerted disinformation campaign coming from the right wing to misrepresent health care reform.

One of the of the more prevalent meme is the claim that government officials are going to start euthanizing people once the hit the age of 22.

Sarah Palin is one of a small band of runners who are fighting against this oppressive system.

56,899,510 Americans voted to put this lady one heartbeat away from the presidency.

Quote

"The study by the new McCormick Tribune Freedom Museum found that 22 percent of Americans could name all five Simpson family members, compared with just 1 in 1,000 people who could name all five First Amendment freedoms."

[Lobowolf]

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

what is she talking about?

Government rationing of health care (taken to a (hypothetical) extreme).

[PassedOut]

Lobowolf, on Aug 8 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

what is she talking about?

Government rationing of health care (taken to a (hypothetical) extreme).

From my days in Atlanta, I remember an Alabama bridge player sentenced to death because he could not pay for the transplant he needed to save his life. Area bridge players worked hard to raise the money (Grant Baze played a big part in this), but the player died before the full amount was gathered.

Personally, I'd like to see the government step in to regulate the health care rationing that already exists in the US.

[Al_U_Card]

Heaven forbid that human life be placed in higher regard than money.

Imagine the ignominy of being rich and not having a life that is more worth saving than some execrable poor person's.

Government of the (rich) people, by the (rich) people and for the (rich) people.

Your money, don't leave life without it....

[Lobowolf]

PassedOut, on Aug 8 2009, 10:39 AM, said:

Lobowolf, on Aug 8 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

what is she talking about?

Government rationing of health care (taken to a (hypothetical) extreme).

From my days in Atlanta, I remember an Alabama bridge player sentenced to death because he could not pay for the transplant he needed to save his life. Area bridge players worked hard to raise the money (Grant Baze played a big part in this), but the player died before the full amount was gathered.

Personally, I'd like to see the government step in to regulate the health care rationing that already exists in the US.

You think he'd have gotten one in time under a government program? The main effect on rationing will be who gets to decide. The government's not going to be passing out free hearts to everyone who needs them.

[luke warm]

Lobowolf, on Aug 8 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

what is she talking about?

Government rationing of health care (taken to a (hypothetical) extreme).

yes, but i meant (specifically) the words "level of productivity in society"... i've never heard that phraseology used, any idea where she got that?

btw, since this supposedly concerns the health care debate, what are the panel's thoughts on forcing (if necessary) the federal executive, legislative, and judiciary branches to use whatever system is deemed acceptable for the rest of the citizentry?

[PassedOut]

Lobowolf, on Aug 8 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

PassedOut, on Aug 8 2009, 10:39 AM, said:

Lobowolf, on Aug 8 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

what is she talking about?

Government rationing of health care (taken to a (hypothetical) extreme).

From my days in Atlanta, I remember an Alabama bridge player sentenced to death because he could not pay for the transplant he needed to save his life. Area bridge players worked hard to raise the money (Grant Baze played a big part in this), but the player died before the full amount was gathered.

Personally, I'd like to see the government step in to regulate the health care rationing that already exists in the US.

You think he'd have gotten one in time under a government program? The main effect on rationing will be who gets to decide. The government's not going to be passing out free hearts to everyone who needs them.

For sure - he had close relative willing to donate the organ he needed for the transplant. He just didn't have the $275K.

Of course not every heart patient will get a free transplant, but otherwise healthy people will not die for lack of money when a crucial organ is readily available.

Sure people will no longer be sentenced to death just to increase the profits of an insurance company. But there will still be tough decisions to make, and we'll constantly be looking at (and arguing about) how the government makes those decisions.

A much better scenario, in my view. And, happily, I won't have to spend so damned much time dealing with employees' insurance.

[Winstonm]

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

what is she talking about?

Gog and Magog?

Just don't tell that blabbermouth Chirac.

[PassedOut]

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 01:08 PM, said:

btw, since this supposedly concerns the health care debate, what are the panel's thoughts on forcing (if necessary) the federal executive, legislative, and judiciary branches to use whatever system is deemed acceptable for the rest of the citizentry?

I'd definitely like to see your suggestion implemented. (Won't hold my breath though.)

[Winstonm]

Quote

what are the panel's thoughts on forcing (if necessary) the federal executive, legislative, and judiciary branches to use whatever system is deemed acceptable for the rest of the citizentry?

There are certainly a number in Congress whom I wouldn't mind watching go in front of the Obama Death Committee.

[luke warm]

Winstonm, on Aug 8 2009, 04:41 PM, said:

Quote

what are the panel's thoughts on forcing (if necessary) the federal executive, legislative, and judiciary branches to use whatever system is deemed acceptable for the rest of the citizentry?

There are certainly a number in Congress whom I wouldn't mind watching go in front of the Obama Death Committee.

what are your thoughts on this?

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

and would your thoughts be different had bush's white house done something similar about, say, the war in iraq - or even gitmo?

[kenberg]

Winstonm, on Aug 8 2009, 04:24 PM, said:

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 08:56 AM, said:

what is she talking about?

Gog and Magog?

Just don't tell that blabbermouth Chirac.

The lady's time in the spotlight is over. Applause. Curtain.

[kenberg]

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 08:36 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Aug 8 2009, 04:41 PM, said:

Quote

what are the panel's thoughts on forcing (if necessary) the federal executive, legislative, and judiciary branches to use whatever system is deemed acceptable for the rest of the citizentry?

There are certainly a number in Congress whom I wouldn't mind watching go in front of the Obama Death Committee.

what are your thoughts on this?

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

and would your thoughts be different had bush's white house done something similar about, say, the war in iraq - or even gitmo?

And who is it from? Who is at flag?


As with the Magog business on the other thread, such stupidity, if it is for real, is truly astounding and tragic.

I hate to be in this position of hoping that so many things about our government turn out as hoaxes.

Feel free to send this to flag. No don't. It will probably get me on a mailing list for vitamin supplements.

[hrothgar]

luke warm, on Aug 9 2009, 04:36 AM, said:

what are your thoughts on this?

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

and would your thoughts be different had bush's white house done something similar about, say, the war in iraq - or even gitmo?

I think that this is a reasonable and proportionate response to the current political situation. There is an excellent piece in yesterday's Washington Post discussing a closely related issue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9080603854.html

The opening paragraph reads as follows

Quote

As a columnist who regularly dishes out sharp criticism, I try not to question the motives of people with whom I don't agree. Today, I'm going to step over that line.

The recent attacks by Republican leaders and their ideological fellow-travelers on the effort to reform the health-care system have been so misleading, so disingenuous, that they could only spring from a cynical effort to gain partisan political advantage. By poisoning the political well, they've given up any pretense of being the loyal opposition. They've become political terrorists, willing to say or do anything to prevent the country from reaching a consensus on one of its most serious domestic problems.

There are lots of valid criticisms that can be made against the health reform plans moving through Congress -- I've made a few myself. But there is no credible way to look at what has been proposed by the president or any congressional committee and conclude that these will result in a government takeover of the health-care system. That is a flat-out lie whose only purpose is to scare the public and stop political conversation.

Tracking the lies and falsehoods that the right wing is spewing seems completely reasonable.

Moreover, there is clear evidence that the "grass roots" anti health care protests have a strong component of astroturf. The following is quite amusing:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08...op-official.php

Tracking emails is a great way to (eventually) identify the source of all this *****.

[cherdanno]

kenberg, on Aug 8 2009, 09:24 PM, said:

luke warm, on Aug 8 2009, 08:36 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Aug 8 2009, 04:41 PM, said:

Quote

what are the panel's thoughts on forcing (if necessary) the federal executive, legislative, and judiciary branches to use whatever system is deemed acceptable for the rest of the citizentry?

There are certainly a number in Congress whom I wouldn't mind watching go in front of the Obama Death Committee.

what are your thoughts on this?

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

and would your thoughts be different had bush's white house done something similar about, say, the war in iraq - or even gitmo?

And who is it from? Who is at flag?


As with the Magog business on the other thread, such stupidity, if it is for real, is truly astounding and tragic.

I hate to be in this position of hoping that so many things about our government turn out as hoaxes.

Feel free to send this to flag. No don't. It will probably get me on a mailing list for vitamin supplements.

I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact I don't understand why you have a problem with that. This is very similar to what the Obama campaign did with the "fight the smears" website during the campaign. The e-mails just helps them judging which misinformation is so widespread that it warrants a public response.
Would you have less of a problem with this if this was handled by the DNC instead of the White House?

[mike777]

yes

[Winstonm]

Quote

and would your thoughts be different had bush's white house done something similar about, say, the war in iraq - or even gitmo?

I am an equal opportunity basher - Obama gets no free ride from me, either. The son-of-a-bitch is worse than Bush when it comes to civil liberties because he knows what he's doing - it can't be blamed on gross stupidity.

However, I am strongly in agreement with Richard that the wingnuts are actually more dangerous and should be called out in the open for their foolishness.

In my work I make a visit on an elderly woman who always has her television tuned to John Hagee or Pat Robertson and thus far she has informed me that these shows have taught her that Obama is really not American but was born in Kenya, that Obama wants to socialize medicine, and that when you separate Obama's name it means something or the other about the anti-christ (I stopped paying attention to her ramblings long ago.)

What is so odd about this is that there was no similar President-bashing from the good pastors when Bush-Cheney were in office.