[helene_t]

I just read C.C.Wei's Simplified Precision and Precision Bidding in Bridge, which, in spite of their age, seem playable even today for people who want to keep things simple.

However, what I don't like is this auction:
1♣-1♦
2NT
Opener has 19-21 and responder 0-7. I'm aware that many modern Precision players solve this problem with a 15-17 NT, but I don't like the neboulous 1♦. Sontag plays the 1♥ rebid as two-way. Nice, but can't it be solved in a simpler way? Wei mentions that you can play 1NT as 13-16. Ok, but not vulnerable at IMPS, please. I've played 4-card-major rebids for a short while, and also wondered about the idea of obliging responder to do something descriptive with 5-6 HCP so that the 1NT rebid could be 16-20. Maybe that would create more problems than it solves, I'm very inexperienced with Precision so I wouldn't be able to tell.

Any ideas?

[the hog]

Easiest is to play
1C 1D 1H as 19+ any
Now 1S = second negative

This means
1C 1D
1N = 16-18

1C 1D
1H 1S
1N = 19-21

And what if you have H?
Well if you are 5332 treat this as a balanced hand and bid the appropriate no of Nt.
With an unbalanced hand you have a couple of choices:
bid 2H
or my favourite
bid 2C = transfer to H, and 2H = 4H and a longer minor

A 16-20 rebid is far too wide.

[Flame]

Solving this problem in a simple way is a good idea, the problem isnt too bad, the chances of partner having 0 hcp are small even when you have 19, so in real life when you have 19, partner will have atleast 4 and 2nt will be fine.
A simple way of making this little bit better is rebiding 1nt with 16-19 2nt with 20-22
thats how it is done in super precision.
Their development after 1NT (16-19)
A. 1C-1D-1N-
Pass = 0-5
2C = 6-7 HCP, either 4441 or balanced
2D = 16-17 HCP, no 4-card major
2H = 1444, 2S = 4144, 2N = to play
2H = 16-18(-), 4H
Pass = 4H min, 2S = 4S not 4H, 2N = to play, 3H = invit
2S = 16-18(-), 4S
Pass = 4S, 2N = to play, 3S = invit
2N = 18 HCP, no major
Pass/3NT = to play
3C = 18-19 HCP, at least one major, GF
3D = Stayman (promises a major), 3N = no major interest
3D = 19 HCP, no major, GF
3H = 1444, 3S = 4144, 3N = to play
(continuations for bids below just like after opening 1N)
2D = xfer to 2H
2H = xfer to 2S (may be 4S-5m invite)
2S = 6-7 HCP, 5-5 in touching suits
2N = weak minor, or 6-7 HCP 5-5 in non-touching suits
3m = invit
3M = invit

[1eyedjack]

Flame, on Jun 15 2004, 12:57 AM, said:

Their development after 1NT (16-19)
A. 1C-1D-1N-
Pass = 0-5
2C = 6-7 HCP, either 4441 or balanced

Not too happy about playing in 2N on a combined 22 count. Not sure, but I might prefer to stay out of 3N on some 25 counts. Perhaps a 6 count and a 5 card minor? One of the problems of a 4 point range 1N rebid I guess.

The_Hog, on Jun 15 2004, 12:55 AM, said:

or my favourite
bid 2C = transfer to H, and 2H = 4H and a longer minor

Sounds good. What do you do with Clubs (unbalanced and not 4 Hearts)

[mishovnbg]

The_Hog, on Jun 15 2004, 07:55 AM, said:

Easiest is to play
1C 1D 1H as 19+ any
Now 1S = second negative

This means
1C 1D
1N = 16-18

1C 1D
1H 1S
1N = 19-21

And what if you have H?
Well if you are 5332 treat this as a balanced hand and bid the appropriate no of Nt.
With an unbalanced hand you have a couple of choices:
bid 2H
or my favourite
bid 2C = transfer to H, and 2H = 4H and a longer minor

A 16-20 rebid is far too wide.

Hi Ron!

Strong pass strike back, hehe I need to add some regular way to solve taken by relay suit scheme. Normally in such case some of no longer need bids (in our example jumping in minors) include some of distributions of taken suit.

1♣-1♦, ?

1♥: 19+
1♠: 5+♠
1NT: 16-18
2♣: 16-18, 5+♣
2♦: 16-18, 5+♦
2♥: 16-18, 5+♥
2NT: 22-23
3♣: 16-18, 5+♥-5+♣
3♦: 16-18, 5+♥-5+♦
3♥ 16-18, 6+♥, 4 losers
...

Misho

[Flame]

1eyedjack, on Jun 15 2004, 01:04 AM, said:

Flame, on Jun 15 2004, 12:57 AM, said:

Their development after 1NT (16-19)
A. 1C-1D-1N-
Pass = 0-5
2C = 6-7 HCP, either 4441 or balanced

Not too happy about playing in 2N on a combined 22 count. Not sure, but I might prefer to stay out of 3N on some 25 counts. Perhaps a 6 count and a 5 card minor? One of the problems of a 4 point range 1N rebid I guess.

I dont think its a problem, i wouldnt like a 1nt rebid that responder will always pass, i prefer responder to be able to bid with 6 hcp, yes we get get to a 22 hcp 2nt and go down, but i still like to get my majors, with no 4 card major i might pass a 6 hcp, but even if i bid, there is still a chance of a nice 4-3 fit at the 2 level.

[Flame]

There is a system called ModernRigalPrecision on daniel systems which after 1c -1d
bid
1H = balance, or 2 suiter with heart the longer.
1S = natural
1NT/2c = transfters.....

you can use the same idea in a simpler way, 1h for balance 17+ and 1nt to show the heart suit.

I still believe simple is the best and 16-19 1nt (open 1nt with bad 16) is fine.

[the hog]

Hi Misho,
your rebids would also work fine.

Jack,
with a c suit you can always rebid 1N, even if somewhat offshaped. With 6+ good C bid 3C

This is a much better scheme than that propsed by Flame, and is fairly common in relay systems.

[1eyedjack]

Flame, on Jun 15 2004, 01:55 AM, said:

There is a system called ModernRigalPrecision on daniel systems which after 1c -1d
bid
1H = balance, or 2 suiter with heart the longer.
1S = natural
1NT/2c = transfters.....

you can use the same idea in a simpler way, 1h for balance 17+ and 1nt to show the heart suit.

I still believe simple is the best and 16-19 1nt (open 1nt with bad 16) is fine.

That is effectively Sontag's method.

And it seems the simplest of the alternatves so far touted. However it does require the 15-17 1N opener and nebulus 1D opener.

Some of the other methods mentioned look like you get a bit high when opener has Hearts opposite a misfitting minimum 1D response to 1C, when other standard precisioneers would get to play in 2m (or even (horror!) 1H).

Well, Sontag doesn't get to play in 1H, but I think the nebulus 1D opener may be the lesser weevil of some of the others.

[whereagles]

There are many ways to bid with 19+ after 1♣-1♦. Every author seems to have his own view on how to do it, lol. Just have a look at the various possibilities (CCWei, Berkowitz, Sontag, Rigal, etc..) and pick the one you're happier with.