[gszeszycki]

S lost all science when they decided to go slamming after 3c. Once the search for MAJOR SUIT FITS has ceased NT is the next viable game spot. after 3c bid S should bid 3d N should then bid 3s to ask for a partial stopper (they would bid 3n with full stop). so far we have 1h 2c 3c 3d 3s at this point S hand improves since N has shown little power in the spade suit. Now a nice simple 4s bid will show slam interest by S and a 5c sign off ends the auction. I assign complete blame on S for going off deep end too soon.

[Vampyr]

aguahombre, on May 12 2010, 06:57 PM, said:

Some people like the 2NT rebid to show extras. 

This thread is in the SAYC and 2/1 forum, so the presumption is a strong NT. Is it really sensible, in such a context, to require extra values for a 2NT rebid? The problems mentioned in this thread would seem to apply to an awful lot of weak NT hands opened 1M.

[aguahombre]

Vampyr, on May 14 2010, 11:49 PM, said:

aguahombre, on May 12 2010, 06:57 PM, said:

Some people like the 2NT rebid to show extras. 

This thread is in the SAYC and 2/1 forum, so the presumption is a strong NT. Is it really sensible, in such a context, to require extra values for a 2NT rebid? The problems mentioned in this thread would seem to apply to an awful lot of weak NT hands opened 1M.

"Some people" did not include me. Some people don't open 1NT with a 5cM.

[aguahombre]

gszeszycki, on May 14 2010, 11:34 AM, said:

S lost all science when they decided to go slamming after 3c. Once the search for MAJOR SUIT FITS has ceased NT is the next viable game spot. after 3c bid S should bid 3d N should then bid 3s to ask for a partial stopper (they would bid 3n with full stop). so far we have 1h 2c 3c 3d 3s  at this point S hand improves since N has shown little power in the spade suit. Now a nice simple 4s bid will show slam interest by S and a 5c sign off ends the auction. I assign complete blame on S for going off deep end too soon.

Very close to our auction. Exact up to 3D; then, 3H-3S-3NT(Spade partial).

At this point, 4C by South clears everything up for North --who heretofor had been cooperating with a NT probe. North now knows that South was, in fact, making real cues for slam and is inviting a club slam. They both know that North has a sub NT opening with a wasted quack in spades. North is on the weak side for his opening bid, with only 3 clubs; and he declines slam.

1H-2C
3C-3D
3H-3S
3N-4C
5C

With an expected spade lead, a club contract seems better than 3NT. The better 3NT looks for overtricks, the better 6C looks; so we are back to very little blame for the OP's less informed blast to 6C.

[Vampyr]

aguahombre, on May 15 2010, 08:22 AM, said:

Vampyr, on May 14 2010, 11:49 PM, said:

aguahombre, on May 12 2010, 06:57 PM, said:

Some people like the 2NT rebid to show extras. 

This thread is in the SAYC and 2/1 forum, so the presumption is a strong NT. Is it really sensible, in such a context, to require extra values for a 2NT rebid? The problems mentioned in this thread would seem to apply to an awful lot of weak NT hands opened 1M.

"Some people" did not include me. Some people don't open 1NT with a 5cM.

Still, "those people" (not including aguahombre), might consider rebidding 2NT with a weak NT and have lots of bids available for stronger hands. Especially if they are playing SAYC and not 2/1 GF -- now they will have the opportunity to play 2NT instead of being forced higher.

Does anyone know of any real or perceived advantages to the other approach?

[ONEferBRID]

Vampyr...

The 1H opening and a 2/1 GF response allows for 2 ways for Opener to rebid 2NT-- with "extras" or a minimum ( via a relay system ):

1H - 2C/2D GF
2NT = extras and no 4s

whereas:
1H - 2C/2D GF
2H! ( announces a minimum and maybe 4s ) - 2S! ( asks )
2NT = minimum and no 4s
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And when Opener has 4s:
1H - 2C/2D GF
2S = extras w/4s

whereas:
1H - 2C/2D GF
2H!(minimum) - 2S! ( asks)
?? ( anything other than 2NT shows 4s):
the 3-level replies (3C/3D, etc ) can be patterned after the Flannery Convention
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"You can have your cake and eat it too ".

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the ATB is simple - the players had a different meaning for the 3C
bid, if it can be based on a 3 carder with min val., than obv. the 4NT
bid is ..., if 3C promises more, than the 3C bid is ...

Should be in your system notes.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Assuming SAYC, I think opener should bid 2NT, showing a bal.
hand with 12-14, if 2NT showes more, than opener should bid 2H,
personl I believe 3C should show 5-4.

[Winstonm]

I prefer a 2N rebid and I play that it shows the unbids stopped. I still would rather fudge this way.

1H-2C
2N-3D
4C-4H
5C

About the most reasonable sequence I can find.