[Mbodell]

basketball prospectus amongst others does advanced statistics of players that measures a lot more than just scoring. Amongst that they put Gasol as one of the top 10 players this year in WARP, possibly even better than Kobe this year.

If you look over the decade 2000-2009 looking at all NBA players over that time Gasol came in number 16. See top players of the past decade. Gasol was adding just over 10 wins a season compared to around 19 for the top 2 players (Garnett and Duncan) and 16 for Kobe. Dirk was number 4 at around 15 wins a season.

So Gasol is quite good, yes.

[jdonn]

I put him about 25th.

[jjbrr]

Stephen Tu, I suggest you look up the word "hyperbole". You see, when I said I would look good at forward if Kobe was on my team, I didn't actually mean that literally. It's one of those devices people use in conversation to emphasize a point they're trying to make. I know it's confusing!

And I don't understand how you could possibly say X is better than Y right now conclusively. Gasol is better at some things. Garnett is definitely better at defense and as a team leader, despite his physical decline. Does that make either Garnett or Gasol objectively a better player? No. And it would be silly to try to say one is better than the other since they have different strengths and different roles on their teams.

[mike777]

everyone knows LA is the best team


I just give boston a chance.....at this point......a chance....

I picked..bet boston in the east..........long ago......so far so good...
-----------


side note sigh...I hope to live long enough to bet my Cubs
----------

at this point...at this point....we can say Rays best team in history.....

better than 32...27 yanks......yes......

[jjbrr]

mike777, on May 21 2010, 10:25 PM, said:

everyone knows LA is the best team


I just give boston a chance.....at this point......a chance....

I picked..bet boston in the east..........long ago......so far so good...
-----------


side note sigh...I hope to live long enough to bet my Cubs

I'm going to see the Cubs tomorrow in Arlington. Should be fun.

[Stephen Tu]

Quote

Stephen Tu, I suggest you look up the word "hyperbole". You see, when I said I would look good at forward if Kobe was on my team, I didn't actually mean that literally. It's one of those devices people use in conversation to emphasize a point they're trying to make. I know it's confusing!

Oh geez. You are being ridiculous. I know you didn't mean YOU literally, which is why I used Kwame, an actual NBA player, as my counter-example, not you literally. You made the statement that Pau wasn't a top 5 forward and implied that he only seemed good because he was playing with Kobe.

Maybe you should look up how to write to make an effective point. I understand the use of hyperbole and sarcasm just fine. You apparently do not. Your use of hyperbole doesn't help your claim at all (players look better playing with Kobe, so Gasol overrated because of this), because it's demonstrably untrue, looking historically at other teammates. The statement minus the hyperbole is still ridiculous, so it doesn't help your case, the hyperbole is irrelevant here.

Quote

And I don't understand how you could possibly say X is better than Y right now conclusively. Gasol is better at some things. Garnett is definitely better at defense and as a team leader, despite his physical decline. Does that make either Garnett or Gasol objectively a better player? No. And it would be silly to try to say one is better than the other since they have different strengths and different roles on their teams.

When it's a close argument it's hard to definitevely who is better, but at least it's an argument. But you were LOL'ing at Pau being top 3. It's not an absurd, LOL worthy statement IMO. If you want to argue he's say 5th best or 6th best rather than 3rd fine, but LOL'ing at 3 is overboard.

Gasol vs. Garnett ... right now Gasol is ahead in every stat category by a significant margin. Garnett can't move/dominate on defense like he used to, his BPG this year are down to half his career average. IMO the only thing Garnett still leads in is trash-talking, he's a shadow of his former self. Happens to all the greats, he has 50% more mileage on him than Gasol.

If you want to compare careers, or Garnett from 5 years ago vs. Gasol now, I'll take Garnett, but in 2010 I'll take Gasol.

[jjbrr]

If you think Kwame Brown benefits as much from a teammate like Kobe as Gasol does, I don't know what to tell you. Kwame would be garbage if his teammates were all all-stars. Gasol would look like a hall of famer if his teammates were all all-stars.

I mean it's easy to have great numbers when your team is average 124 points or something every game.

[mike777]

jjbrr, on May 22 2010, 12:29 AM, said:

If you think Kwame Brown benefits as much from a teammate like Kobe as Gasol does, I don't know what to tell you. Kwame would be garbage if his teammates were all all-stars. Gasol would look like a hall of famer if his teammates were all all-stars.

I mean it's easy to have great numbers when your team is average 124 points or something every game.

no it should not be easy to show great numbers if your team puts up 124..........


'at the very least we can agree what great numbers are......
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If we cannot agree on what great means......ok... HOUSTON...we have a problem....

[mike777]

For me greatest all time draft .....I mean all time great draft mean nothing.......
Butkis/Sayers....

[arigreen]

As a typically biased Laker fan I can't compare Pau Gasol to players like Bosh who I've rarely seen play before. But one thing I'd like to add is that Gasol seems to never take a bad shot. I haven't seen WARP or anything of that ilk before, but it wouldn't surprise me that Gasol would be rated as high or higher than Kobe in overall efficiency. He's a great player, and there's no way the Lakers would be where they are without him.

[jjbrr]

Amare 42 points 11 rebounds; Gasol 23 points. Right now, Amare is almost twice as good as Gasol!

[cherdanno]

jjbrr, on May 23 2010, 10:56 PM, said:

Amare 42 points 11 rebounds; Gasol 23 points. Right now, Amare is almost twice as good as Gasol!

Even I would look good as a center on a team with Nash.

[mike777]

jjbrr, on May 23 2010, 10:56 PM, said:

Amare 42 points 11 rebounds; Gasol 23 points. Right now, Amare is almost twice as good as Gasol!

no......not twice as good...........



We can debate if even as good......


for instance...Gasol plays defense at least some of the time...

At this time my take Gasol will have a better career than amare, esp if amare never plays defense.

[jjbrr]

so what you're both saying is we can't take a small sample size to determine relative skill? shocking.

[jjbrr]

cherdanno, on May 23 2010, 10:39 PM, said:

jjbrr, on May 23 2010, 10:56 PM, said:

Amare 42 points 11 rebounds; Gasol 23 points. Right now, Amare is almost twice as good as Gasol!

Even I would look good as a center on a team with Nash.

stoudamire:

[ ] center

[x] pf

[bb79]

jjbrr, on May 24 2010, 01:33 AM, said:

cherdanno, on May 23 2010, 10:39 PM, said:

jjbrr, on May 23 2010, 10:56 PM, said:

Amare 42 points 11 rebounds; Gasol 23 points. Right now, Amare is almost twice as good as Gasol!

Even I would look good as a center on a team with Nash.

stoudamire:

[ ] center

[x] pf

interestingly, Amare was listed as center in the all-star ballot this year. Normally, Yao Ming wins west's center voting, but he had an injury for all season and he wasn't in the ballot. I guess organizers didn't want to see Bynum or Nene as a starter.

[Winstonm]

A more interesting question to me is what would today's centers be if they had to play the likes of Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabar, etc. How would they do, I wonder.

[andrei]

Fluffy, on May 20 2010, 10:10 AM, said:

When I see spannish news about NBA they say Pau Gasol is the best player in the world blablabla, all the usual rubish, but when I watch some american press, I find him completelly unmentioned mostly, what is the real truth? is he worth anything?

Gasol gets some love from american media too: Doug Collins, comentating Lakers-Suns game 3 for TNT, said that "Gasol is the best big man in the game right now"

[shyams]

New views, anyone?

BBC reports that Gasol was a massive contributor to Lakers winning the title.

[jdonn]

He was clearly the second best player on the Lakers. That is not a surprise at all.