[mtvesuvius]

Zelandakh, on 2010-November-14, 10:43, said:

A75/QJT987/43/43 is alot? at Game All? The problem is the safety of the 3 level when partner does not have the right hand rather than partner not being able to have enough. I think I would still bid 2S but the risk certianly makes Pass a LA. I do not think we should be preempting on rubbish at these colours as dealer (as some have suggested they do).

This was also somewhat my thinking, but on the slightly more pessimistic side

I think that playing partner to have Axx♠ is playing for too much of a perfecto. Perhaps the risk is worth it with a fairly disciplined partner, since 3♥ vs 2♥ should (hopefully) only be a loss of 3 IMPs. If partner rebids 3m, we are stuck. Pass seems best now, trying to escape... Anything else is just making a bad situation worse.

IMO, partner isn't raising spades enough, and rates to not have a hand where game is reasonable enough to try for it.

Playing with most juniors that don't pay much attention to vulnerability, or playing an aggressive pre-emptive style, I think it's a pass. Playing with Andrew or a few of my other partners, I'd bid 2♠.

One more interesting thought: Would you change your bid if 2♥ could be 5? What if it promised a side 4cm?

[nigel_k]

I'll try 2♠. It will be wrong most of the time but is a 3-5 IMP loss against a 10 IMP gain. Still very close though.

[pooltuna]

nige1, on 2010-November-14, 15:52, said:

IMO 2♠ = 10, _P = 5, 2N = 2.
We would open 2♥ with, eg ♠ Axx ♥ QJxxxx ♦ Jx ♣ xx
And, for us, 2♠ is F1.

Actually partner held
♠JT5
♥KQT754
♦A
♣963

I think the vulnerability made me think I needed to risk a 2♠ call but it was so uncomfortable I thought I needed to share my misery

[nige1]

pooltuna, on 2010-November-13, 21:43, said:

Team game All Red In third seat ♠ K86432 ♥ - ♦ KQ82 ♣ AK2
2♥ (P) ?

mtvesuvius, on 2010-November-14, 17:06, said:

I think that playing partner to have Axx♠ is playing for too much of a perfecto. Perhaps the risk is worth it with a fairly disciplined partner, since 3♥ vs 2♥ should (hopefully) only be a loss of 3 IMPs. If partner rebids 3m, we are stuck. Pass seems best now, trying to escape... Anything else is just making a bad situation worse.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Opposite
♠ Axx ♥QJxxxx ♦ Jx ♣ xx you are more likely to make 6♠ than be defeated in 4♠ But there are a variety of less suitable hands where game is a reasonable shot at teams
e.g. ♠ Qx ♥ QJxxxx ♦ Axx ♣ xx
e.g. ♠ Ax ♥ KJxxxx ♦ JTxx ♣ x
Your 2♠ bid often advertises a potential misfit. This should help partner to judge the merits of game. He can stop in 2N or three of a suit. Opponents, too, know that 2♠ shows a good hand with interest in game so they rarely double such a part-score.

[Zelandakh]

mtvesuvius, on 2010-November-14, 17:06, said:

One more interesting thought: Would you change your bid if 2♥ could be 5? What if it promised a side 4cm?

Over a Muiderberg 2H, 2S seems to be even better. With a minimum partner will rebid 3S with support, 3m with a 5 card minor, or 2NT otherwise. With a max we'll see 3H on a partial spade fit, 3NT with a spade void (yuck!), or something descriptive at the 4 level with a spade fit. Seems like we are getting out into a better part score more often than not and games should usually be within respectable parameters for being vulnerable. Compared with the alternatives of passing or bidding 3C p/c I think 2S has enough upside here to be worthwhile.

[jillybean]

Fluffy, on 2010-November-14, 14:22, said:

What contract are you trying to reach jilly?

One of my "disasterous 3NT's"

[Phil]

2♠. I think pass is pretty terrible. We might have a spade game or we might have a better spot in either diamonds, spades or even clubs.

[MrAce]

Phil, on 2010-November-14, 23:20, said:

2♠. I think pass is pretty terrible. We might have a spade game or we might have a better spot in either diamonds, spades or even clubs.

Phil..do me a favour and try to reply to topics b4 the actual hand is released And how many times in ur life time , u actually played in a third suit, after pd opened weak 2 in a suit and u responded with a new suit of your own ?

Next time i post a question, i will not release the original hand untill u reply (i am kidding mate )

[Free]

Bid 2♠ and be glad you don't play multi!

[gwnn]

I open 1♥ with the actual hand but I realise that I am probably in a minority.

[MrAce]

gwnn, on 2010-November-16, 07:01, said:

I open 1♥ with the actual hand but I realise that I am probably in a minority.

Minority or not, u are not alone

[mtvesuvius]

gwnn, on 2010-November-16, 07:01, said:

I open 1♥ with the actual hand but I realise that I am probably in a minority.

Certainly playing limited openings I would, and I think there is a strong case for opening 1♥ in standard as well. Good spots, Jxx♠, easy rebid. What could possibly go wrong?

[gszeszycki]

bid 2s

IMPS is a risk vs reward game and the reward of a spade game is far too great a prize to arbitrarily pass due solely to pessimism. Our hand is good enough to give the 2h bidder a fair chance of making 3h if they have a great suit. That fact alone mitigates a lot of the risk associated with a 2s bid. That means 2s is almost all potential reward with a fairly small amount of risk. Ideal circumstances for a game try.

[MickyB]

I'm not sure I've ever picked up a hand over partner's weak 2H where I wanted 2S to be forcing. I've picked up quite a few where I was glad it was NF. Over a weak 2D it's closer, there you might well want to bid 2M forcing when you have diamond support.

[nige1]

MickyB, on 2010-November-16, 08:53, said:

I'm not sure I've ever picked up a hand over partner's weak 2H where I wanted 2S to be forcing. I've picked up quite a few where I was glad it was NF. Over a weak 2D it's closer, there you might well want to bid 2M forcing when you have diamond support.

It's a matter of style. For example, change-of-suit forcing makes handling two suiters easier e.g.
♠KJxxxx ♥- ♦AQJxx ♣Kx

[mfa1010]

nige1, on 2010-November-16, 20:21, said:

It's a matter of style. For example, change-of-suit forcing makes handling two suiters easier e.g.
♠KJxxxx ♥- ♦AQJxx ♣Kx

I would not have problem with bidding a nonforcing 2♠ with that. Opposite mostly hearts, there are still many losers. Nonforcing doesn't mean that partner must pass. He can raise with fit and we have shown a 6-card suit. He should raise pretty much always with three and bid again some of the time with two, when he has decent values outside hearts. Opposite a singleton spade, 2♠ seems like the place to be. 3♦ could be marginally better, but it is not so relevant if 2♠ then 3♦ would be forcing anyway.

[han]

I also play 2S NF.

[Phil]

MrAce, on 2010-November-15, 00:21, said:

Phil..do me a favour and try to reply to topics b4 the actual hand is released And how many times in ur life time , u actually played in a third suit, after pd opened weak 2 in a suit and u responded with a new suit of your own ?

Next time i post a question, i will not release the original hand untill u reply (i am kidding mate )

Heh TE it really doesn't matter. Sometimes I get them right and most of the time I don't. FTR I post plenty of answers after the fact that are wrong.

We aren't here to look like genii, we are all trying to learn something

However a few days later I have read nothing that shows me that 2♠ is incorrect.

[MrAce]

Phil, on 2010-November-17, 16:04, said:

Heh TE it really doesn't matter. Sometimes I get them right and most of the time I don't. FTR I post plenty of answers after the fact that are wrong.

We aren't here to look like genii, we are all trying to learn something

However a few days later I have read nothing that shows me that 2♠ is incorrect.

2♠ is not incorrect. I just prefered pass thinking that my pd preempts like i do