3 Hearts asking or telling? ACBL
#1
Posted 2011-March-25, 13:26
1♠-2♣-3♣-3♥
Is 3♥ asking partner to bid NT if he has ♥ stopped
or is it telling partner that he has Hearts stopped [with possibly 4 in the suit?]
and for you to bid /consider 3NT?
#3
Posted 2011-March-25, 13:41
dickiegera, on 2011-March-25, 13:26, said:
1♠-2♣-3♣-3♥
Is 3♥ asking partner to bid NT if he has ♥ stopped
or is it telling partner that he has Hearts stopped [with possibly 4 in the suit?]
and for you to bid /consider 3NT?
Do you live on the East coast or the West coast?
#6
Posted 2011-March-25, 15:13
#7
Posted 2011-March-25, 15:29
dickiegera, on 2011-March-25, 13:26, said:
1♠-2♣-3♣-3♥ = ??
This starts out very similar to the 7D ("misunderstanding kickback" ) thread:
3♥ = either: a "cheapest" cue bid ( after all ♣ was supported ) or a 3NT probe ( showing ♥-stop[s] ).
If a cue bid, it denies a Diam-Ctrl;
if a Ht-showing 3NT-probe, it denies a Diam-stop.
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
#8
Posted 2011-March-26, 04:56
dickiegera, on 2011-March-25, 13:26, said:
1♠-2♣-3♣-3♥
Is 3♥ asking partner to bid NT if he has ♥ stopped
or is it telling partner that he has Hearts stopped [with possibly 4 in the suit?]
and for you to bid /consider 3NT?
I would guess that 3♣ shows a good ♠ raise, or is is asking for a stop.
If you bid ♥ now, it shows ♥ (normally a 5card) and a good hand (10H or more).
It look like a light 1♠ opening or a light 2♣ overcall. In doubt I trust my partner. (later I can always blame him )
#9
Posted 2011-March-26, 07:48
Lurpoa, on 2011-March-26, 04:56, said:
If you bid ♥ now, it shows ♥ (normally a 5card) and a good hand (10H or more).
It look like a light 1♠ opening or a light 2♣ overcall. In doubt I trust my partner. (later I can always blame him )
Re-read the initial problem -- NO interference.
The auction so far is:
1S - 2C
3C - 3H
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
#10
Posted 2011-March-26, 08:42
-P.J. Painter.
#11
Posted 2011-March-26, 13:57
Sure 3♥ may very well be 5 cards long in which case ♣ r 6+ cards long; but if that is the case it will be shown next round .
#12
Posted 2011-March-27, 11:50
dickiegera, on 2011-March-25, 13:26, said:
1♠-2♣-3♣-3♥
Is 3♥ asking partner to bid NT if he has ♥ stopped
or is it telling partner that he has Hearts stopped [with possibly 4 in the suit?]
and for you to bid /consider 3NT?
3♥ = 4 card, GF, and partner may bid 4♥ if he has 4.
My Meta-rule: if a bid can be natural, it is. This interpretation is part of BWS2001.
But again, it is the kind of bid that you should have discussed with partner, and without agreement, it is natural.
#13
Posted 2011-March-28, 02:25
#14
Posted 2011-March-28, 02:32
(still learning)
"At last: just calm down, this kind of disrupted boards happens every day in our bridge community. It will always be an inherent part of bridge until we move to a modern platform, and then will we have other hopefully less frequent issues." P Swennson
#15
Posted 2011-March-28, 04:29
jillybean, on 2011-March-28, 02:32, said:
Yes, that is a good remark !
With a ♦ stopper and ♥, it looks better to bid NT....else partner has problems if he doesn't have a ♦stopper.
#16
Posted 2011-March-28, 05:29
dickiegera, on 2011-March-25, 13:26, said:
1♠-2♣-3♣-3♥
Is 3♥ asking partner to bid NT if he has ♥ stopped
or is it telling partner that he has Hearts stopped [with possibly 4 in the suit?]
and for you to bid /consider 3NT?
After the sequence
1♠-2♣
3♣
Any further move is looking for game. It's easy enough to show a stop, but how do you show a partial? If you use the bid of any of the two remaining suits to ask for a partial stop in that suit, or show a stop in that suit, confirming a stopper in the other suit, would that not be better? You will obviously need allowance to define whether the response was based upon a partial or actual stop, but that should be no issue
You can also use other sequences to show 2 card ♠ support, ♠ game with initial cue (thus redefine the partial ask) and the possibility of stopping short of game?
#17
Posted 2011-March-31, 20:32
I think priority here, for cues at 3 level should be for the best game seeking, thus 3NT searching. But further developments in bidding (like lifting pd's 3NT to 4♣ after our 3♥) should override the first meaning of our 3♥ (or 3♦ bid in another hand)
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#18
Posted 2011-April-02, 19:13
#19
Posted 2011-April-02, 19:36
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#20
Posted 2011-April-02, 21:48
Lurpoa, on 2011-March-27, 11:50, said:
My Meta-rule: if a bid can be natural, it is. This interpretation is part of BWS2001.
But again, it is the kind of bid that you should have discussed with partner, and without agreement, it is natural.
Totally illogical for it to have to show 4H. This shows a H stopper, that's all.