3 Hearts asking or telling?

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3 Hearts asking or telling? ACBL

#1 dickiegera

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Posted 2011-March-25, 13:26

Auction goes with no interference

1♠-2♣-3♣-3♥

Is 3♥ asking partner to bid NT if he has ♥ stopped
or is it telling partner that he has Hearts stopped [with possibly 4 in the suit?]
and for you to bid /consider 3NT?

#2 dcohio

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Posted 2011-March-25, 13:33

I play this as looking for NT with doubt in diamonds.

#3 hrothgar

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Posted 2011-March-25, 13:41

dickiegera, on 2011-March-25, 13:26, said:

Do you live on the East coast or the West coast?

Alderaan delenda est

#4 whereagles

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Posted 2011-March-25, 14:49

Where I live it's showing hearts, asking on diamonds.

#5 dickiegera

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Posted 2011-March-25, 15:04

hrothgar, on 2011-March-25, 13:41, said:

Do you live on the East coast or the West coast?

Ohio. Eastern USA

#6 nigel_k

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Posted 2011-March-25, 15:13

Always showing unless it's the fourth suit or you have a special agreement.

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#7 TWO4BRIDGE

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Posted 2011-March-25, 15:29

dickiegera, on 2011-March-25, 13:26, said:

Auction goes with no interference

1♠-2♣-3♣-3♥ = ??

This starts out very similar to the 7D ("misunderstanding kickback" ) thread:

3♥ = either: a "cheapest" cue bid ( after all ♣ was supported ) or a 3NT probe ( showing ♥-stop[s] ).

If a cue bid, it denies a Diam-Ctrl;
if a Ht-showing 3NT-probe, it denies a Diam-stop.

Don Stenmark
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( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

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#8 Lurpoa

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Posted 2011-March-26, 04:56

dickiegera, on 2011-March-25, 13:26, said:

I would guess that 3♣ shows a good ♠ raise, or is is asking for a stop.

If you bid ♥ now, it shows ♥ (normally a 5card) and a good hand (10H or more).

It look like a light 1♠ opening or a light 2♣ overcall. In doubt I trust my partner. (later I can always blame him

)

♥Bob Herreman ♥

#9 TWO4BRIDGE

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Posted 2011-March-26, 07:48

Lurpoa, on 2011-March-26, 04:56, said:

)

Re-read the initial problem -- NO interference.

The auction so far is:
1S - 2C
3C - 3H

#10 kenrexford

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Posted 2011-March-26, 08:42

IMO, the answer should be governed not so much by geography but more by cuebidding style. Consistency is key. If the cuebidding style is normal, then 3♥ should show. If the cuebidding is denial, the 3♥ call should ask. That way, when a call like this serves two possible purposes, the two purposes are closer in type and less likely to result in schizophrenic bidding.

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#11 tolvyrj

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Posted 2011-March-26, 13:57

IMO 3♥promises someting in ♥, not necessarily genuine suit HHx is enough, it shows a) im not willing to play ♠contract unless u have extra length b) my strength is in ♣and in ♥ c) i cant bid 3Nt for some reason or another and d) my bid is GF so bid something that helps me to know what to do im not going to pass under game.
Sure 3♥ may very well be 5 cards long in which case ♣ r 6+ cards long; but if that is the case it will be shown next round :rolleyes:

#12 Lurpoa

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Posted 2011-March-27, 11:50

dickiegera, on 2011-March-25, 13:26, said:

3♥ = 4 card, GF, and partner may bid 4♥ if he has 4.

My Meta-rule: if a bid can be natural, it is. This interpretation is part of BWS2001.

But again, it is the kind of bid that you should have discussed with partner, and without agreement, it is natural.

♥Bob Herreman ♥

#13 Free

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Posted 2011-March-28, 02:25

Partner has ♥.

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#14 jillybean

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Posted 2011-March-28, 02:32

Telling and denies a diamond stopper.

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#15 Lurpoa

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Posted 2011-March-28, 04:29

jillybean, on 2011-March-28, 02:32, said:

Telling and denies a diamond stopper.

Yes, that is a good remark !

With a ♦ stopper and ♥, it looks better to bid NT....else partner has problems if he doesn't have a ♦stopper.

♥Bob Herreman ♥

#16 barryallen

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Posted 2011-March-28, 05:29

dickiegera, on 2011-March-25, 13:26, said:

After the sequence

1♠-2♣
3♣

Any further move is looking for game. It's easy enough to show a stop, but how do you show a partial? If you use the bid of any of the two remaining suits to ask for a partial stop in that suit, or show a stop in that suit, confirming a stopper in the other suit, would that not be better? You will obviously need allowance to define whether the response was based upon a partial or actual stop, but that should be no issue

You can also use other sequences to show 2 card ♠ support, ♠ game with initial cue (thus redefine the partial ask) and the possibility of stopping short of game?

bridge is never always a game of exact, for those times it's all about percentages, partner and the opponents.

#17 MrAce

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Posted 2011-March-31, 20:32

I have a question to those, who plays this as "telling and denying ♦ control or stopper" For which contract is 3 ♥ denying ♦ control/stopper? Lets say i have stiff ♦, this is hell of a control on 5♣ but not for 3 NT.

I think priority here, for cues at 3 level should be for the best game seeking, thus 3NT searching. But further developments in bidding (like lifting pd's 3NT to 4♣ after our 3♥) should override the first meaning of our 3♥ (or 3♦ bid in another hand)

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#18 SteveNick

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Posted 2011-April-02, 19:13

If it was me, I'd assume that my partner was saying, "I have hearts, bid 3 NT if possible."

#19 Phil

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Posted 2011-April-02, 19:36

Initially its just a good stopper looking for 3N. But if I pull partners 3N it shows a control with slam ambitions.

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#20 the hog

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Posted 2011-April-02, 21:48

Lurpoa, on 2011-March-27, 11:50, said:

Totally illogical for it to have to show 4H. This shows a H stopper, that's all.

"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.

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BBO Discussion Forums: 3 Hearts asking or telling? - BBO Discussion Forums

3 Hearts asking or telling? ACBL

Poll: 3 Hearts asking or telling? (35 member(s) have cast votes)

3 Hearts asking or telling?

#1 dickiegera

#2 dcohio

#3 hrothgar

#4 whereagles

#5 dickiegera

#6 nigel_k

#7 TWO4BRIDGE

#8 Lurpoa

#9 TWO4BRIDGE

#10 kenrexford

#11 tolvyrj

#12 Lurpoa

#13 Free

#14 jillybean

#15 Lurpoa

#16 barryallen

#17 MrAce

#18 SteveNick

#19 Phil

#20 the hog

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