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Faulty Claim Germany, but it does not matter

#1 User is offline   PeterE 

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Posted 2011-April-01, 12:50


Declarer, South, plays in 7NT on a spade lead. Overtaking the ♠K with his Ace he puts down is cards, saying "all mine." TD!
The TD is directing the first national league; all players are of (very) high standard - although some of them cannot count :rolleyes:

Your decision, please.
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#2 User is offline   jallerton 

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Posted 2011-April-01, 13:13

This hand (with the cards slightly changed) has already been discussed on this thread started by Gerben.
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#3 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2011-April-01, 14:13

Depends on whether you think playing HA first in hearts is "careless for the class of player involved". Cashing the K first picks up 4 tricks if W holds Jxxx(x) (A next) or if E holds all 5 (10 next). If I was a TD I'd rule it one down since declarer might just blindly cash the Ace, and I'd do the same even at the highest levels to encourage people to claim accurately :) But I would have some sympathy with a TD who thought that the safe play in hearts was automatic and gave declarer 13 tricks.

ahydra
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#4 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2011-April-01, 14:24

Quote

Law 70E1: The director shall not accept from claimer any unstated line of play the success of which depends upon finding one opponent rather than the other with a particular card, unless an opponent failed to follow to the suit of that card before the claim was made, or would subsequently fail to follow to that suit on any normal line of play or unless failure to adopt that line of play would be irrational.


Down 1.
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As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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#5 User is offline   mjj29 

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Posted 2011-April-01, 15:55

View Postblackshoe, on 2011-April-01, 14:24, said:

Down 1.

Only if you assume that the obvious saftey play in hearts is not 'normal' (after which one of the defenders does show out and declarer is allowed to pick up the jack). After all, I think even I would manage to find it and this is meant to be the top league...

Not that I have all that much sympathy for declarer.

Matt
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#6 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2011-April-01, 17:13

It's not a question of "assume", it's a question of judgment. And of what "any normal line of play" means. Particularly what "any" means.
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As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
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#7 User is offline   bluejak 

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Posted 2011-April-01, 17:45

View Postmjj29, on 2011-April-01, 15:55, said:

Only if you assume that the obvious saftey play in hearts is not 'normal' (after which one of the defenders does show out and declarer is allowed to pick up the jack). After all, I think even I would manage to find it and this is meant to be the top league...

Errr - which "obvious" safety play?
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#8 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2011-April-02, 06:26

View Postbluejak, on 2011-April-01, 17:45, said:

Errr - which "obvious" safety play?

Peeking to see who has the jack, and cashing the appropriate top honours.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#9 User is offline   campboy 

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Posted 2011-April-02, 06:33

View Postbluejak, on 2011-April-01, 17:45, said:

Errr - which "obvious" safety play?

Trying to lose a heart immediately, while you still have tops in every suit and an entry to the spades, as a safety play against going lots off if you later forget that the fourth round of hearts isn't good? Unfortunately dummy's pips are too good and you will accidentally make your contract now :P
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