[gnasher]

han, on 2011-April-06, 08:34, said:

That doesn't seem so hard. With

Kxx
AQxxxx
Kx
9x

I think a club lead is at least reasonable.

Well personally I'd lead a heart from that, and I'm not sure that a club would even be my second choice. Why would I guess which of my doubletons to lead?

[phil_20686]

I suspect that partner with three hearts will not wish to pitch a heart under any circumstances. From four hearts he might pitch a heart. A club pitch tells us he is long in clubs. Long enough that a pitch can never cost so he will cater to us having a singleton. Thus he must have at least 5 clubs. So perhaps the real question is why does RHO, with two aces and a card in our suit, feel that it is not right to defend 4H opposite a 3S bid that could be almost anything.

I think that its impossibly inconsistent for declarer to have stiff Q of hearts. It just cannot be true on this bidding. Would he really bid 4S here when he is beating 4H opposite Kxx spade and Jxx hearts 40% of the time? (i.e. spades 2-2). That way lies madness.

The only question then, is whether declarer will generally need his club ruff for ten tricks. If declarer were 6-2-0-5 and partner had KJ32 clubs or similar, then he might find a club pitch. Hard to beleive that he would not pitch a diamond in that case. At least this would make sense of declarers bidding. However now partner is smoking something special. If declarer is 6-1-2-4 might he squeeze partner or me?

My head tells me that underleading the heart is the most legitimate chance for one off, playing partner for x Qxx ?xxx KJxxx, but if partner has the 7 of clubs as one of his cards, then this is is going off anyway on a spade return unless declarer has the J of diamonds. I mean, this hand is so wierd. Perhaps I should just cash a top heart. Perhaps I should interpred the club as saying that partner has two club tricks. Then again, perhaps he is not as sure as use that I cannot have a doubleton. My gut tells me that something mega wierd is happening.

[kayin801]

Partner could have x, Qx, Jxxxx, KJ8xx give or take a minor suit spot and couldn't signal for a heart since he would be uncomfortable baring his Q.

[gszes]

if it were up to me---since I might have only one discard I would try to make it as descriptive as possible

telling p we have club suit locked up is nice but hardly rates to be as important as other information.

P did not lead hearts for a reason since I can play a LOW heart to show A or K I can play a high heart
to deny the Q (which can be a very important piece of information to p -especially if they want a club ruff-

My failure to play a high heart should promise the heart Q (not J please) and in this case clubs under control.

Using this inference I would lead the heart deuce to make certain p leads back a club (hopefully by cashing the K
and leading another club. This LOP will lead to down 2 if rho is 6133 and no dia J.

As an aside p can tell that declarer has no more than 2 hearts and one heart pitch (from Qxx or xxx)will almost never ever ever cause the partnership any harm and might be of tremendous benefit.

[kenrexford]

This debate about whether to show the heart Queen or not is cracking me up. I mean, I can imagine creating a hand where partner does not have the Ace and King of hearts. What I cannot create is a hand where partner has no club card, only the spade King, at most the diamond King, and not two of the top three honors in hearts. Hence, if partner must have two of the top three hearts, then you can clearly encourage with the third top heart, whatever that may be.

As a related aside, partner won't have a problem with upside-down attitude. If he doesn't have a clearly small heart, he has QJ8 and can easily play the Queen.

Also, what squeeze would partner be concerned with? When it matters, he has both minors, and he's the one squeezed. How could he need to save three hearts?

If partner doesn't signal hearts, he doesn't have the Queen. Or, he messed up.

[Phil]

phil_20686, on 2011-April-06, 09:01, said:

I suspect that partner with three hearts will not wish to pitch a heart under any circumstances.

I'm not sure why you think that. We are looking at AK9642 of hearts and dummy has T75. Partner could send a very clear signal QJ8 / QJ3 by pitching the Q. With J83, he would have an easy J or 8.

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From four hearts he might pitch a heart.

I think he would always probably pitch the ♥Q looking at QJ83, but our chances of beating this are diminished in that case, and our defense probably doesn't matter anyway.

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A club pitch tells us he is long in clubs. Long enough that a pitch can never cost so he will cater to us having a singleton. Thus he must have at least 5 clubs.

Agree, and his 2 should be present count, although I don't know if Adam plays UDPC or standard. For me, the club 2 would show 6 (or less likely, 4), which would put declarer on a likely 6=1=3=3. As Ulven said, the club card should not only be count, but also send an indirect message about the ♥Q.

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So perhaps the real question is why does RHO, with two aces and a card in our suit, feel that it is not right to defend 4H opposite a 3S bid that could be almost anything.

I don't see how you can arrive at this conclusion RHO has a 'card in our suit'.

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I think that its impossibly inconsistent for declarer to have stiff Q of hearts. It just cannot be true on this bidding.

You just contradicted yourself.

Quote

Would he really bid 4S here when he is beating 4H opposite Kxx spade and Jxx hearts 40% of the time? (i.e. spades 2-2). That way lies madness.

And have gone back to saying he has the ♥Q stiff. I feel as though I am watching a ping-pong match in your brain.

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The only question then, is whether declarer will generally need his club ruff for ten tricks.

Our club ruff will be our 4th trick along with a club, spade and a heart. He can have his club ruff.

Quote

If declarer were 6-2-0-5 and partner had KJ32 clubs or similar, then he might find a club pitch.

So partner raised to 4♥ on x - Qx - 9xxxxx - KJxx? As you say, why would partner ever pitch a club from this layout? He has a normal diamond pitch. Plus, this looks like a responsive double to me.

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However now partner is smoking something special

.

He needs this to play with you apparently.

Quote

If declarer is 6-1-2-4 might he squeeze partner or me?

With A86x, he has a finesse. With A87x, he doesn't need either. With A7xx, there's only 9 tricks. With A643, he needs the squeeze for 9. Again, some of this only matters if declarer has the ♥Q stiff. If partner discarded a discouraging heart, we need to attack dummy's entries now in case declarer has AJTxxx Q Jx A6xx (funny weak 2 though)

[han]

Battle of the phils.

[MrAce]

Phil (clayton) , i am nowhere close to be as good as u in english, but i think all his comments were trying to tell why declarer is unlikely to hold the stiff ♥Q, rather than contradicting himself.

Phil, on 2011-April-06, 13:57, said:

Again, some of this only matters if declarer has the ♥Q stiff. If partner discarded a discouraging heart, we need to attack dummy's entries now in case declarer has AJTxxx Q Jx A6xx (funny weak 2 though)

Attacking dummy's entries i assume u mean ♦K ? That will not help defense. He takes Ace, cashes all ♠ and asks ur pd to hold 4 cards. Pd has to hold 3 ♦+1♣ in that case he cashes ♦ J and endplays pd with ♣

[kenrexford]

As a general rule, I find one principle to be a good one to live by. Consider two options:

1. Partners carding tells me that he does not have the heart Queen.
2. Declarer, a person I did not select as my partner for the event, made a call of which I would not approve if he has the heart Queen.

I find that going with option #1 usually works best in the long run.

[MrAce]

kenrexford, on 2011-April-06, 16:15, said:

As a general rule, I find one principle to be a good one to live by. Consider two options:

1. Partners carding tells me that he does not have the heart Queen.
2. Declarer, a person I did not select as my partner for the event, made a call of which I would not approve if he has the heart Queen.

I find that going with option #1 usually works best in the long run.

No doubt on that, IF the interpretation of ♣2 was clear and obvious for everyone. As far as the replies goes, i don't think people are in same page even on the opening lead being obvious stiff or not, which directly affects the meaning of pd's signal.

I personally prefere to go with odds Q being in pd's hand vs interpretations of all that carding styles. I have the opposite experience that u have, it worked better for me to go with odds as oppose to partner's being able to read everything correct and signal correctly and be in same page with me, especially when the odds suggests strongly otherwise.

But i definetely understand your view and u have valid points.

[mtvesuvius]

---

Unfortunately declarer did have the stiff queen, and despite me giving him a diamond guess later, he made 4♠.

[gnasher]

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despite me giving him a diamond guess later

It wasn't really a guess: you wouldn't have played ♦8 from a remaining 863.

[kenrexford]

Trusting partner works. Weird.

[Phil]

kenrexford, on 2011-April-08, 11:31, said:

Trusting partner works. Weird.

Get better partners. Mine would have dumped the ♥8 / J in a nanosecond.

[MrAce]

Phil, on 2011-April-08, 14:13, said:

Get better partners. Mine would have dumped the ♥8 / J in a nanosecond.

Agree...And u dont even need a good pd to dump them...even i would have dumped them

[mtvesuvius]

♥J can easily be wrong, the ♥8 is helpful though.

When partner has AKQxxx♥, then pitching the ♥J will give up the hand.

[Phil]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-April-08, 14:51, said:

♥J can easily be wrong, the ♥8 is helpful though.

When partner has AKQxxx♥, then pitching the ♥J will give up the hand.

Might give up the hand. Declarer gets one of our heart spots. If it is the 6, 4 or 2, partner will card the same with J83 as 863, 843 and 832. And if partner has the ♦J, we won't need anything fancy.

[gnasher]

Suppose that partner did throw a discouraging heart. What would you play next?

[gnasher]

gnasher, on 2011-April-09, 00:58, said:

Suppose that partner did throw a discouraging heart. What would you play next?

I'm glad to see that you're all taking more than a nanosecond over this. It's a good idea for at least one member of the partnership to think about the defence.

[blackshoe]

Overheard at a local club, after the session: "I didn't come here to think, I came here to play bridge!"