[jh51]

IMP scoring

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This deal occured in a KO match that we lost by a single IMP. 1NT is 'semi-forcing", so Sounth was allowed to pass. Reverse 2-way Drury, so 2♣ and 2♦ seem to be unavailable. Does anyone have a better suggestion on how to bid this?

I must admit that I (North) misplayed the hand at a crucial point - we should have made our contract and won the match. East led a heart and west took the first three heart tricks before switching to a diamond. I now made the misguided play of leading a spade to me hand to take the club finesse. While it won (stiff K onside), the J was a stopper and east had the K♠ and the remaining hearts. If I play my clubs from the top, I make 1NT on the actual hand as well as any hand where clubs are 2-2 or 3-1 with a singleton honor. My actual line requires clubs to be 2-2 with the K onside. My actual line makes sense if I need 8 tricks, but I had only contracted for 7.

[aguahombre]

2NT by a passed hand to show the minors might be especially helpful to those hampered by Drury.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

aguahombre, on 2011-April-13, 18:27, said:

2NT by a passed hand to show the minors might be especially helpful to those hampered by Drury.

Agree..... but I play it as a long minor... puppets to 3C for pass or correct.

[kenrexford]

aguahombre, on 2011-April-13, 18:27, said:

2NT by a passed hand to show the minors might be especially helpful to those hampered by Drury.

This is how I like it.

[655321]

jh51, on 2011-April-13, 15:24, said:

1NT is 'semi-forcing", so Sounth was allowed to pass.

Semi-forcing means opener can pass with a balanced minimum, it doesn't mean he can or should pass with 5413.

[Lurpoa]

655321, on 2011-April-13, 20:39, said:

Semi-forcing means opener can pass with a balanced minimum, it doesn't mean he can or should pass with 5413.

Indeed !
Why look for complicated gadgets, on this simple sequence.

[aguahombre]

655321, on 2011-April-13, 20:39, said:

Semi-forcing means opener can pass with a balanced minimum, it doesn't mean he can or should pass with 5413.

Quite true, but that only gets us out of 1NT. If Opener is 5-4-1-3 we want to play in clubs. If 5-4-3-1 we want to play in diamonds. The 1NT response, doesn't get the job done.

Being a passed hand creates an idle bid to fill a hole. An unpassed responder wouldn't have that.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2011-April-14, 04:24

[mcphee]

2NT from passed hand delivers the message the passed hand wants to TELL. It is only a complicated bid to those who refuse to think. Why players insist on bidding 2NT to show the 10-11 hand is just not at all wise when you already have a way of showing that hand. about 8-11 and 5-5 + minors, gee how easy is that!

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Auction looks reasonable, although I prefer 2H instead of Pass,
and it is not clear, if you end up in 3C after 2H.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Raff90]

First i would bid 2H with the opener hand and after that 2NT for showing minors.

[aguahombre]

Raff90, on 2011-April-14, 07:48, said:

First i would bid 2H with the opener hand and after that 2NT for showing minors.

It is often difficult in these fora to discuss the merit of a treatment, convention, gadget ---whatever, when people are coming from different starting points. A tool is a good thing if it fills a gap on sometimes difficult hand patterns --and then, only if the bid is unused for some other purpose, or the bid it replaces can be incorporated into another sequence.

When people state how a convention or treatment sucks, is unworkable, etc. they really mean for THEM. The delayed 2NT suggested by Raff90 to show minors would mean that pair must have some other way of handling an 11-point passed hand without support for Spades or hearts.

p-1S
1N-2H
?

When the passed hand bid a semi-forcing NT, and held the eleven, it was all right if opener was weak-balanced, and passed. But presumably if opener had a suit to rebid he was expected to do so. 2NT/2H is now needed with the eleven count non-fitting invite.

Pairs will spend years "tweaking" their system, moving bids around so that more situations can be handled. Spouse and I have chosen not to use Drury at all, and to treat the 1NT response to a major forcing by a passed hand. This allows us to have natural 2m responses (forcing for one round only) and differentiate between a 10-11 point minor 2-suiter and one with less (direct 2NT). In turn, it affects what third-seat will open at all with and what a 3rd-seat weak two (major) might look like.

We don't think Drury sucks. We just don't find it inconvenient to include balanced limit raises into the 1NT responses, and this allows 2m to be used differently. Others believe Drury is vital (because of what their opening bids might look like); and we don't think that sucks for them.

[inquiry]

Do you play an opening bid of 2♦ as weak two in diamonds? If so, consider giving up on two way drury, and just use 2♦ as drury. This allows 2♣ to be natural and non-forcing. You are more likely to want to bid clubs naturally after a major opening than diamonds because you don't have a weak two club opening bid available.

The "unusual 2NT" by a passed hand works well on a lot of hands, including this one. However, if you catch partner with 6S, 4H and a weak hand, you just got too high. Being able to bid 2♣ allows partner to rebids a six card spade suit, or if 5-4 to rebid his four card suit (hopefully diamonds). So the ability to use a natural 2♣ bid is not a cure-all either, but it would have worked on this hand as well.