[wank]

---

[aguahombre]

Partner is red, too --not just you--and chose Michaels. Feels like there are twenty trumps around: ten hearts for us, and ten spades for them (we might even have a double red fit). I would bid 5H.

[Phil]

if I 'knew' partner had the pointed suits, I'd go.

Partner looks like 1=5=2=5 but could also be 2=5=1=5 (as well as some 5-6's). For a r/w Michaels call I would expect a 5-6 11 count in the (gulp) 6 loser range - x AQxxx xx AJTxx. Here, 5♥ is 500, although it isn't clear they are doubling, but there is also an off chance if they do not pick up the diamonds. With ♣AKxxx we are probably beating 4♠ and 5♥ has no chance.

[mike777]

I pass but I never seem to get these 5 level decisions right. Look forward to the posts.

Red vs white 5h seems like a guess when both might go down.

[gwnn]

pass I think. it would be awesome to play specific michaels (I usually try to).

phil I think you mean the pointed bottom suits

[ggwhiz]

I fully expect a 6-5 on these colours. Just not our style to use michaels every single time.

I bid 5♥ at imps but there is nothing wrong with pass at matchpoints. Take your 40% or so and move on but take the goose egg out of play.

[aguahombre]

Phil, on 2011-April-11, 10:30, said:

if I 'knew' partner had the pointed suits, I'd go.

If I knew she had the pointed suits I would double. Rounded suits most likely, and red suits possible.

[rogerclee]

"Passing seems like a deep view to me."

-Han Peters

[MickyB]

I am sure it would be right to pass if I knew pard had clubs, or if I knew oppo wouldn't phantom in 5S, but in the real world I think I have to bid.

[Phil]

aguahombre, on 2011-April-11, 11:48, said:

If I knew she had the pointed suits I would double. Rounded suits most likely, and red suits possible.

The other pointed suits obviously. Pointed on the bottom

[gwnn]

people are ignoring my posts

[SimonFa]

wank, on 2011-April-11, 07:54, said:

---

We play Michaels always shows 2 highest unbid suits so I would know pard has both red suits. This means we could well be losing 4 black tricks and maybe 1 red, -800 doubled. Two off is -500 and as they are white still losing out against game.

Also when pard bid he didn't envisage a 5-level bid.

It just doesn't feel right so I'm for passing and hoping in at nearer 50%.

[Phil]

gwnn, on 2011-April-12, 03:21, said:

people are ignoring my posts

yes they are

[rogerclee]

Just a theory thing by the way, it's important in this auction to have two ways to bid at the 5 level. For example in this auction, I would play

1S 2S 4S ?

4N = p/c for your minor, I am bidding to make
5C = p/c for your minor, I am just saving
5D = strong 5H bid
5H = weak 5H bid

[JLOGIC]

We have 5 card support for partner fwiw

[rogerclee]

I feel like I should elaborate.

One of partner's most likely actions if we pass will be to double back in (or bid something). Obviously we are not sitting for this, we are going to bid 5H. How does this compare to bidding 5H directly? Bidding 5H directly shows something like this, since we did not do something stronger like starting with 4N or 5D (see above post). By passing and then bidding 5H in this scenario, we are not describing our hand, and if partner has a magical hand like void AQxxx Ax AKxxxx there is no way we will get to slam, let alone 7, whereas he has an easy 6H bid (at least) over our 5H.

Basically, when partner saves us by doubling back in (likely), we will usually push against passing but will occasionally miss slam by our failure to act, so it is bad to pass in this scenario.

How about if partner cannot act? Then we are defending 4S opposite mediumish strength 5-5 hands (probably good, but unclear) or mediumish 5-6 or even 6-6 hands. Why would you want to do that? A hand like x AJxxx x AQxxxx would never come back in and this is just almost certainly a game swing if not a double game swing. x AQxxx Kx AQxxx is another hand where we will just be defending 4S ridiculously while we are just on a hook through the opening bidder for 5H, and sometimes they are also just cold for 4S. I guess there is not much else to say except that passing 4S is absurdly bad in my view.

If you play a style of Michaels where passing is reasonable because partner could have anything, then maybe you should reevaluate. If you are only taking 9 tricks when you catch your partner with Kxxxx of support and a side working doubleton, maybe you shouldn't be forcing to the 3 level!

[MickyB]

rogerclee, on 2011-April-13, 00:22, said:

I feel like I should elaborate.

One of partner's most likely actions if we pass will be to double back in (or bid something). Obviously we are not sitting for this, we are going to bid 5H. How does this compare to bidding 5H directly? Bidding 5H directly shows something like this, since we did not do something stronger like starting with 4N or 5D (see above post). By passing and then bidding 5H in this scenario, we are not describing our hand, and if partner has a magical hand like void AQxxx Ax AKxxxx there is no way we will get to slam, let alone 7, whereas he has an easy 6H bid (at least) over our 5H.

Basically, when partner saves us by doubling back in (likely), we will usually push against passing but will occasionally miss slam by our failure to act, so it is bad to pass in this scenario.

You could just play similar 4N/5D bids over the double as you suggest playing on the first round.

[mcphee]

Defending 4S with the trump stack I hold rather than be on offense with my known 10(+) card fit looks like the wrong option. Some days you even make 5H, other days they bid 5S. Should they next bid 5S I do think partner leading his AH from a previously unappealing holding could be just what we need. The down side is partner has a pail for their bid we get smashed and go for 1100, maybe we can use the "sorry thot we were white" excuse.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, and do it in tempo.

If you would know the 2nd suit, and you would know,
that the 2nd suit is diamonds, thand I would say bid
5H, but I dont - hence I pass.

Of course if you have the agreement, that the michaels
always showes 6-5 at the given colors bid on as well.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[MinorKid]

I think clubs are likely for partner's second suit. Otherwise, opponents would had both black suits and had responded some sort of Fit Jump instead of rising Spades.