[M Snerd]

I would like to see what the tournament users think of the Bidding system as it is used by the robots in the tournaments. Scale of 1 to 10 would be nice. This is after the newest changes.

Any interest anyone?

[helene_t]

7. There are a few things I don't like, for example that it plays crappaletti and that it doesn't play Drury. But over-all it is a good system.

[barmar]

8. I would also like a few changes, like Puppet Stayman over 2NT. And 1430 RKC just because that's what I play with all my human partners, so it takes conscious effort to switch.

But most of the problems with robot bidding are not systemic, they're judgement.

[A2003]

A hand
Gib cannot quit bidding.

[georgi]

A2003, on 2011-July-10, 06:32, said:

A hand
Gib cannot quit bidding.

Why do you bid 3♠ if you then dislike the 4♠ contract.
Even if you were trying to get the 3NT contract with ♣ stopper from North, what's wrong with the 4-3 fit you revealed.

If you're about to introduce "fake" suit, why is the GIB called quitter? GIB was trying to return you on the safer contract.

Once found good fit (4-4♠) why GIB should let you play on 6-1 in ♦ and one level up.

[A2003]

georgi, on 2011-July-10, 11:02, said:

Why do you bid 3♠ if you then dislike the 4♠ contract.
Even if you were trying to get the 3NT contract with ♣ stopper from North, what's wrong with the 4-3 fit you revealed.

If you're about to introduce "fake" suit, why is the GIB called quitter? GIB was trying to return you on the safer contract.

Once found good fit (4-4♠) why GIB should let you play on 6-1 in ♦ and one level up.

3♥ - 11 HCP. GIB says and why?
5♠, 6♠, 7♠ is no sense to this bid with this bad trump holding.

[cloa513]

A2003, on 2011-July-10, 06:32, said:

A hand
Gib cannot quit bidding.

Stupid 3♦ bid, you can't evaluate your hand towards 3NT until your partner supports- if it was solid 6 diamonds and the ace king of spades then a better case for 3D. GIB bidding system is idiotic with 3♠ bid as natural four card suit when he has bypassed the natural bids 1♠ and 2♠. 3♠ should be an exploration toward 3NT or 5♦ or perhaps continue onto 4♥ nothing else.

[mtvesuvius]

cloa513, on 2011-July-10, 23:20, said:

Stupid 3♦ bid

And what do you suggest o' great one?

[mtvesuvius]

3♠ is this auction should be a last train to 3NT type probe, basically saying that you don't have a heart fit and still want to leave 3N in the picture. I agree with your bidding up until 3♠ here... GIB's 4♠ is not unreasonable since a 4-3 spade fit may play very well here, although with such bad trumps, I think 4♦ would be better.

3♠ cannot be natural here, and having GIB interpret it as such seems silly. That being said, once GIB bids 4♠, I'd probably pass.

This hand brings up a more general principle about GIB though, which is that once it thinks it has found an 8 card major fit, it will demand to play there -- There just isn't a way to overrule it. This is all fine and well in some cases, but in others it prefers 4M to 3N when extremely balanced and given a choice of games (I'll post an example hand when I find it), or when I invent a bid I think cannot possibly have a 4 card suit (i.e. here), and it refuses to give up playing in that strain. One way or the other, this is something that needs fixing IMO... GIB tends to be very unilateral in these auctions, and refuses to respect partner's decision to play in another strain.

[cloa513]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-July-11, 00:16, said:

And what do you suggest o' great one?

2♦

[matmat]

cloa513, on 2011-July-11, 01:27, said:

2♦

oh resulters, how I love thee.

I'm staring at 8.5 tricks in my hand, need a heart stopper (which p will have) and a club stopper (which partner might have) to make 3nt and you are recommending a totally non-forward-going, feeble 2♦ call?

[helene_t]

A2003, on 2011-July-10, 06:32, said:

A hand
Gib cannot quit bidding.

The problem is that GIB defines the 3♠ bid as showing 4+ spades, which makes no sense.

You probably better adhere to the system but otoh I can understand 3♠ anyway, I might have made it myself.

Then the problem that GIB explained 4♠ as showing 3+. It is difficult to pass 4♠ then.

But 5♠ you should certainly pass.

[mtvesuvius]

cloa513, on 2011-July-11, 01:27, said:

2♦

matmat beat me to it, but - LOL.

I'll let you read matmat's post to explain why 2♦ is an infinitely awful bid.

[cloa513]

matmat, on 2011-July-11, 01:42, said:

oh resulters, how I love thee.

I'm staring at 8.5 tricks in my hand, need a heart stopper (which p will have) and a club stopper (which partner might have) to make 3nt and you are recommending a totally non-forward-going, feeble 2♦ call?

BS- nowhere near 8.5
Partner needs diamonds support for you to have 8.5

[manudude03]

cloa513, on 2011-July-11, 07:03, said:

BS- nowhere near 8.5
Partner needs diamonds support for you to have 8.5

Partner will on average have 2 diamonds. When that's the case, you will make 7 diamond tricks a little over half the time. To put it another way, take away AJ of diamonds and you will still get some fair support for opening the hand (and rebidding 2D), surely 2D here is an underbid. Heck, even if you call it 7 clear playing tricks, that's still better than most 3D rebids.

[matmat]

cloa513, on 2011-July-11, 07:03, said:

BS- nowhere near 8.5
Partner needs diamonds support for you to have 8.5

Yeah. I'm sorry; partner denied support when they bid 1♥, and from opponents' bidding it is clear that we have ♦Q9xx sitting neatly behind our diamonds suit. So in view of this knowledge I fully understand your 2♦ rebid, you simply have a much better read on opposing cards, especially when you see the full deal!

[xxhong]

About 5. Very incoherent in some cases, unreliable in some cases and no method to count tricks.

M Snerd, on 2011-July-02, 19:11, said:

I would like to see what the tournament users think of the Bidding system as it is used by the robots in the tournaments. Scale of 1 to 10 would be nice. This is after the newest changes.

Any interest anyone?

[xxhong]

One key issue here is that 3D should deny 4 spades and I don't think the programmer ever gave that constraint. There are many such kind of situations. Sometimes gib jump rebid its 5 card suit and bypass a lower 5 card suit. A lot of basic bidding principles are missing in gib's system. Anyway, the gib system is very premature and bbo doesn't have the resource to improve it fast after such a long time IMO.

A2003, on 2011-July-10, 06:32, said:

A hand
Gib cannot quit bidding.

[cloa513]

manudude03, on 2011-July-11, 07:47, said:

Partner will on average have 2 diamonds. When that's the case, you will make 7 diamond tricks a little over half the time. To put it another way, take away AJ of diamonds and you will still get some fair support for opening the hand (and rebidding 2D), surely 2D here is an underbid. Heck, even if you call it 7 clear playing tricks, that's still better than most 3D rebids.

So if you expect the best from partner and opponents anyway- just bid 3NT direct.